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[///]

MG would in too high levels would cause major issues, on you and the beer. Magnesium salts in Burton beers are good for cleaning you out!

For the bacterial side, would the same bacteria able to cope with 60C be able to cope with 105 odd C??

 

[Ross]

There are no "nasties" growing in your hot water service. But to prevent the tank from corroding they use a sacrificial anode. ie, a big lump of aluminium or magnesium alloy which will oxidise quicker than the copper tank or the heater elements. Traces of this anode end up in your water. Boiling will not drive off these metals, either.

I don't know whether my HWS has one, but because I don't know, I use cold tap water to brew with.

Out of interest, where is this sacrificial anode placed?? 30 years in the scrap trade & handling thousands of HWS's I've never noticed one. Not saying thet are not there, just curious.

cheers Ross

 

[PostModern]

Out of interest, where is this sacrificial anode placed?? 30 years in the scrap trade & handling thousands of HWS's I've never noticed one. Not saying thet are not there, just curious.

cheers Ross

Posted this link http://www.chilipepperapp.com/GWH.htm before, has a pic. The anode goes in the top of the HWS. Might be an American only thing? As I said above, I have never seen one in my tank. Then again, Rheem Australia mentions them http://www.rheem.com.au/faq.asp?view=anode

 

[Ross]

Posted this link http://www.chilipepperapp.com/GWH.htm before, has a pic. The anode goes in the top of the HWS. Might be an American only thing? As I said above, I have never seen one in my tank. Then again, Rheem Australia mentions them http://www.rheem.com.au/faq.asp?view=anode

thankyou

 

[Darren]

My MASTER Brewer when working at Bass's Hope and Cannon brewery in Sheffield had a heat tolerant bacteria in their HLT. Took them a while to locate the source, contributed a 'wet dog' aroma to the beer which they could pick up against the other Bass brewery beers.

///,

You mean that heat resistent bacteria can survive HLT, mash and boil??

 

[PostModern]

thankyou

My pleasure

Here's another page:
http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHR...ter-anodes.html

At the top, there is a pic of a spent anode next to a fresh one. All that metal would have come out thru the hot water taps. Sure most of it goes down the drain after a shower, but if you fill your HLT and cooking pots with it, a large proportion would have gone thru your intestinal tract, liver, kidneys and bladder as well.

EDIT: This page also mentions the hot water odour problem as well.

 

[beeroclock]

///,

You mean that heat resistent bacteria can survive HLT, mash and boil??

Magnesium salts in Burton beers are good for cleaning you out!

just az well eh? some punters are full of ...

 

[newguy]

///,

You mean that heat resistent bacteria can survive HLT, mash and boil??

Scientists have determined that the bacteria found around hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor can tolerate temperatures up to 80C. More info here. I don't know if they'd survive the boil, but they'd tolerate the mash for sure. Who knows what sort of things they'd create while they were alive and at work? I doubt that the boil would drive off these off flavours either. Same goes for anything lurking in your hot water tank. For what it's worth, I use hot water for brewing and don't have any issues.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Another sorta on point question...

Are there any ill effects or perceptible odours when using a run of the mill garden hose to fill the HLT

I know when you drink water from a garden hose you get that rubbery garden hose taste (even after running the hose for a while)

Does this taste flow through to the final product?

I recently filled up one of my kegs (for soda water) from a garden hose and I think I perceived a slight taste initially - but haven't noticed it since

Cheers

 

[PostModern]

just az well eh? some punters are full of ...

Indeed.

Another sorta on point question...

Are there any ill effects or perceptible odours when using a run of the mill garden hose to fill the HLT

I know when you drink water from a garden hose you get that rubbery garden hose taste (even after running the hose for a while)

Does this taste flow through to the final product?

I recently filled up one of my kegs (for soda water) from a garden hose and I think I perceived a slight taste initially - but haven't noticed it since

Cheers

I reckon the carbonic acid in the soda will mask hose flavours. I avoid the hose for drinking and brewing water, personally, but as you can see from above, I'm more fussy than most.

 

[warrenlw63]

I reckon the carbonic acid in the soda will mask hose flavours. I avoid the hose for drinking and brewing water, personally, but as you can see from above, I'm more fussy than most.

I think you could most probably even drive it off. Maybe vent the keg a few times and the CO2 will carry it away ??

Warren -

 

[white.grant]

Another sorta on point question...

Are there any ill effects or perceptible odours when using a run of the mill garden hose to fill the HLT

I know when you drink water from a garden hose you get that rubbery garden hose taste (even after running the hose for a while)

I use my garden hose all of the time, once the lizards get washed out, everything tastes fine.

grant

 

[PostModern]

I think you could most probably even drive it off. Maybe vent the keg a few times and the CO2 will carry it away ??

Warren -

Like burping out the hop aromas? Is rubber hose flavour volatile enough to blow away? (Gah, honestly, I don't care to know if it is )

I use my garden hose all of the time, once the lizards get washed out, everything tastes fine.

grant

Good luck to the hose users! I have an outside tap just above corny height right next to my keg fridge and easy HDPE bucket carrying distance from my HLT. Personally, like Cortez, I have tasted cooled hot water service water and didn't like it. I have (naturally) tasted my fair share of garden hose water as well. Also, I don't like it. So I leave both sources out of my brewing. The stuff straight from the tap tastes fine, so I use it, with some calcium salts to assist the mash and add some "body" to the water. I also put some of those same salts into soda water kegs. (Calcium also apparently helps prevent takeup of Aluminium by the body).

If you're fine with hose water and hot water tank water, and you're happy with your results using same in the brewery, then all power to you.

 

[///]

///,

You mean that heat resistent bacteria can survive HLT, mash and boil??

In the Bass instance, the bacteria had an effect on the mash. Far from a microbiologist, but i do remember Dave Logsdon from Wyeast raising the topic of biofilm's on heat exchangers and advising some of the nasties were not killed until extreme heat over 100c is applied. Seems the nasties build a polyusachridae film over themselves to survive.

 

[maltedhopalong]

The reason is that hot water dissolves contaminants more quickly than cold water, and many pipes in homes contain lead that can leach into water. And lead can damage the brain and nervous system, especially in young children.

- The EPA in the NY Times

Water heaters can have a big impact on water quality. That is one reason why you should not drink hot tap water. As water heaters age, the components in the water heater tank and the tank itself breaks down. You may find white flakes in your faucet screens. These are usually present when the dip tube (a plastic pipe in your water heater) starts to flake apart. You may see a clear or green gel like substance if you draw a bath of hot water. This is caused from the anode rod, found in all water heaters, breaking down. And your hot water may smell odd. This too is caused by the chemical reaction between the anode rod and the water or by bacteria in the water heater. If any of these conditions are of concern, call a plumber to investigate the problem.

- An American Water Authority

It is best to use cold water. Hot water is more likely to contain dissolved contaminants from your household plumbing system. These contaiminants may include rust, copper and lead.

- An American City Council

So the dangers are: metals and metal salts dissolving in the water, breakdown of the dip tube and potentially bacteria proliferating in the warmth.

If you see green scum or white flakes in your water, you're not going to brew with it. Considering I've known people who have drunk water from their green, coroded taps their whole lives where the water comes out brown from the water tank or dam or whatever, I think the safety risk is overstated. I'm sure it's there, but it's never bothered them and it's never bothered me.

As far as bacteria goes, i don't think nasties from the bottom of the ocean will be travelling to my place any time soon. Also, it's not just the 100 degree temperature that kills bugs, but the effect of boiling, it's a violent affair that they just can't handle. Besides, if any bugs somehow managed to survive the boil, you'd know it in your fermentation (as did the commercial brewery). Further to that, if my HWS was a cesspool of bacteria, then it would be an ideal place for them to multiply, and they wouldn't stop until they'd taken over the world. So I'm sure there's SOME bacteria in there but I doubt they like it.

My 2,836,183,438,867 Argentinian peso's worth (two cents) - Pour a cup of hot and a cup of cold water, drink them and if you notice a difference you're not comfortable with, don't brew with it. I still will be, after all the instructions on those Coopers cans says "add hot tap water"!!!

 

[newguy]

As far as bacteria goes, i don't think nasties from the bottom of the ocean will be travelling to my place any time soon. Also, it's not just the 100 degree temperature that kills bugs, but the effect of boiling, it's a violent affair that they just can't handle. Besides, if any bugs somehow managed to survive the boil, you'd know it in your fermentation (as did the commercial brewery). Further to that, if my HWS was a cesspool of bacteria, then it would be an ideal place for them to multiply, and they wouldn't stop until they'd taken over the world. So I'm sure there's SOME bacteria in there but I doubt they like it.

Weird timing. Just watched a documentary on caves. One of the scientists said that at the moment, the highest heat tolerant bacteria that science is aware of can survive 113C.

I'm sure that there aren't any bottom-of-the-ocean bacteria in my hot water tank either, but there could be several varieties that normally don't thrive anywhere else.

 

[Pumpy]

Yep the only Heavy Metal I want to be putting into my body is via my ears not my stomach :super:


Pumpy

 

[warrenlw63]

LPG is expensive compared to your off-peak electricity. So today I used hot water from my (mains) boiler as a starting point. I was on gas for less than 90min.

OK, maybe your all do this, but thats my lesson for today.

Cheers
KOS

:lol: King of Spain merely asks this (or actually states his findings). Funny how threads tend to take on a life of their own. <_<

KOS If you come up with something new it pays not to post it these days.

Warren -

 

[newguy]

Yep the only Heavy Metal I want to be putting into my body is via my ears not my stomach :super:

Same here. I never thought that lead was an issue, at least for me, because I live in a not-too-old house (1979) and the pipes are all copper. But a few months ago the local paper ran a story regarding the lead distribution pipes still in use in some of the older areas of the city. :blink:

Thankfully my neighbourhood isn't serviced by lead pipes. At least according to the newspaper. <_<

 

[matti]

I prefer using cold water as I am trying to brew lagers quite often.
Just googled this.
It supports the PoMo talk about anodes.
My self, I got a Rinnai instant water heater
LINKY