Sauerkraut Culture?

[philmud]

Thought I'd revive this one as I've been making lots of kraut lately and I've also got some beetroot on the go. I also tried some cucumber kim chi which was good, but I suspect the last batch have me a catastrophic migraine (or a coincidence?)

 

[TimT]

Yeah we've got kraut at our house. I've suggested to the Baron, my wife, that if we get a really really good kraut we might consider using that as a starter for future krauts, but apparently this is frowned on in fermentation circles because the bacteria don't have a chance to go through their normal cycles or something. Yeah, but we'll end up with better tasting kraut. (I'm not that fussed but. Not as if I do much kraut making.)

 

[Mardoo]

Woe be to thee, who receiveth the fermentation frown!!! Fie upon thee, may thy crock be cast to hell! HELLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!

couldn't resist

 

[philmud]

I hadn't heard that, about using a starter being frowned upon. I've tried it, and it certainly kicks things off more quickly but I can't say I've noticed a difference in flavour. I got my info/method from "The Art of Fermentation" and Sandor Katz seems ambivalent about the use of starters - he does make the point that they're unnecessary and that has certainly been my experience so far. Does the Baron put any seeds/herbs in her kraut?

 

[TimT]

We sometimes chuck in some other vegies or fruit. Just getting to the bottom of a beetroot/cabbage kraut at the moment. I think herbs and seeds might be a good addition actually. I can't remember why uses of starters are frowned upon - not nutritionally as good? I'll just yell a question over the house.... wait a second....

 

[TimT]

Hmmm. Because with a starter you skip parts of the fermentation, meaning there'll be less diversity of lacto-bacilli in your final sauerkraut apparently. Which is bad why, I asked? Might impact the flavour (not as 'rich') and not quite as good for you (the nutritional benefits of sauerkraut, I think, partly arise from the fact that the bacteria in the kraut will feed the bacteria in your gut).

 

[philmud]

I think, partly arise from the fact that the bacteria in the kraut will feed the bacteria in your gut).

Absolutely - it's a powerful probiotic. I guess it makes sense - using a starter speeds up the fermentation process. Katz says he often gets asked when the optimal nutritional benefits of fermentation are present in kraut. His response is that he thinks it's important to eat foods right throughout the process to benefit from the bacterial diversity. Thanks for that, I might ditch the kraut-juice-as-starter, especially as it seems superfluous.

 

[philmud]

Woe be to thee, who receiveth the fermentation frown!!! Fie upon thee, may thy crock be cast to hell! HELLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!

couldn't resist

That reference is lost on me, but I will say that it sounds like an early entry in one of the infection threads.

 

[TimT]

Made no sense to me either but I loved it.

 

[pommiebloke]

Keen to give this try. Is it best to do this away from the brewery to minimise the risk of the LAB contaminating my beer?

 

[MartinOC]

Currently under the oppression of some sort of green-gunge-producing throat/chest lurgy, for which I've been prescribed anti-biotics (SWMBO reckons I sound dead sexy...except I have to sleep on the couch :angry: ).

As the anti-biotics ruin one's gut flora, I've been chowing-down on bowls of sloppy rice & home-made Kimchi (easy to swallow, with LOTS of garlic & chilli) for probiotics.

So, I'm getting better, eating well, but SWMBO now doesn't want me breathing garlic all over her!!!

 

[philmud]

I do it in my kitchen for that reason PB, though I'm not sure it's entirely necessary. If you like sauerkraut, then definitely give it a shot, it's dead easy and the results are really good. I'll share my method because IMO a bit simpler than some of the descriptions I've read.

I use a 4L glass jar that I bought at a cheapie Asian shop for about $5. It has a plastic lid and I suspect the seal is less than airtight. I chop, salt and bruise the veggies and pack them into this jar. A very big cabbage almost half fills it. I place a round Tupperware lid on the surface of the cabbage - this is handy because I can bend it to get it through the neck of the jar, and then let it snap back into shape to cover most of the cabbage surface area. Then I put a clean, empty stubby on the Tupperware lid. This protrudes about an inch past the top of the jar, but there's still enough give in the cabbage to allow me to screw on the lid. The bottle applies pressure to the kraut and pretty soon the surface of the cabbage is submerged in brine. I "burp" the kraut every day or two to let out gas. After a week or two, I have delicious kraut.

 

[philmud]

Kim chi is delicious Martin! Yum

 

[philmud]

Thought I'd post these for illustrative purposes. This is two different batches, both with beetroot in addition to cabbage.

 

[MartinOC]

Prince, is that just chunks of raw beetroot in with white cabbage & the chunks "bleed" colour into the whole mass? Looks great & sounds good, too!

 

[philmud]

Prince, is that just chunks of raw beetroot in with white cabbage & the chunks "bleed" colour into the whole mass? Looks great & sounds good, too!

Yep, though the second batch I grated the beetroot for a more consistent texture.

 

[Mardoo]

Keen to give this try. Is it best to do this away from the brewery to minimise the risk of the LAB contaminating my beer?

I too have wondered this, also for vinegars. Presumably best away from the brewery, yes?

Y'all are definitely getting convincing me to get back into making kimchi and sauerkraut. Did it regularly 20 years ago. One of my favourites was with radicchio, but a bit weirdly slimy.

 

[TimT]

Cross contamination can be a worry. For instance I've read about bread yeast getting into (and ruining) cheese. But lacto-bacilli, like yeast, are ubiquitous anyway. We're probably breathing some in and out all the time. And with kraut the lacto-fermentation just takes place after you chop and salt and cover the vegetable with water - the fermentation is anaerobic, so has to take place under water. Ergo, it may not be such an issue. Basically chuck a cloth over it and leave in a warm room. To keep the risks of cross-contamination absolutely minimal you can probably do it away from the brewery but I think it's probably pretty minimal anyway.

 

[DeGarre]

...
I have a blog post on sauerkraut here....

Exactly a blog I want to read, goes to my blog feed. Merci!