Sanitising

[jbowers]

Ok, so my first two brews have not impressed me. The first is either oxidised, a poor set of ingredients or infected. The second is either too young (we'll wait and see on that one) or infected with acetobacter - it tastes of green apples/cider.

Anyway, I just want to know what kind of sanitising methods you guys employ. Previously I have made up a no rinse solution and sprayed everything - bottling bucket, bottling stick and bottles. If you guys have a better/more efficient solution then please let me know.

Edit: the reason I want to know this is because I have a batch in the fermenter that tastes/smells f***ing amazing and I really dont want it to get ruined. Also, I feel like the end of the tap might be pretty dirty from the fermentation fridge its been sitting in, any tips on cleaning that?

 

[Cube]

I totally submerse all my bottles and equipment for about 15 mins in no rinse, turning bottles half way through then just drain upside down in a bottle draining thing I made using holes and nothing touches the lip or inside the bottles once out of the water.. I use bleach/vinegar. Also use this same water to wash and sterilise fermenters. Zero infections thus far.

There are a million threads on here about cleaning/sanitising and how to mix this stuff or that stuff correctly.

 

[manticle]

Green apples is usually a symptom of poor yeast management/yeast stress/underpitching etc. Some people relate it to overuse of sugars like sucrose. Acetobacter leads to a vinegar taste (actually turns ethanol into vinegar). It can be a symptom of infection but I'd look elsewhere first.

Sanitation is only as good as your cleaning regime - you need to make sure everything is clean before you sanitise otherwise it means nothing.

I use sodium percarbonate (in the form of home brand unscented oxygen bleach) to clean. Recently I swithced sanitisers and started using saniclean but buggered up the concentrations and got a spate of infections so using the right concentration is obviously paramount.

What's your regime?That way people can suggest where (if anywhere) you might be going wrong. With oxidation and acetyladehyde symptoms it may not be sanitation related.

 

[peas_and_corn]

Here's an article on the different sanitisers, and here are some threads threads about sanitation.

Happy reading!

 

[jbowers]

The aceltahyde could very well be from the yeast management, my tempts fluctuated about 5 degrees during the ferment of that batch - not great.

My regime with bottles is, once empty, rinse out 2-3 times with water to clear all sediment and then just sanitise when I need to use them. If they are old/used then I use the brewcraft brewing detergent stuff with water, or just regular detergent and then i just rinse like crazy to get it all out.

With fermenters I spray it with brewcraft detergent and then fill with water/detergent and rinse out until it doesnt smell of anything. Then before use i spray everything with no rinse. Basically I make sure everything is clean(ish) once ive used it and then just let it be until I need to use it again and spray it with no rinse solution.

 

[jbowers]

Also, thanks peas and corn. I have read a few of those, but the one about the taps was great - will use that advice.

My key concern is this - when people say 'just sanitise the bottles with starsan'. What do they mean by sanitise with? Do they mean get a spray bottle and spray inside the bottle or do they mean make up a large solution and dunk the bottles inside it?

 

[The Mad Hopper]

Personally I soak all bottles in home brand napisan (sodium percarbonate) for 48 hours, rinse them with tap water then boiling water and follow it up with a spray of peroxide into the bottle and drain dry. PITA and probably overkill, but it works.

 

[kelbygreen]

I am now using napisan to clean my stuff (only been with this batch) I racked my beer today and the fermenter had a nasty thick caked on layer at the top quarter scoop napisan and about 5lt water just shook the hell out of it and left for 10 mins then done the same was clean as. I usually clean again just befor I brew so I clean the fermenter again then sanitise it (was using brewcraft sanitiser but all out as of today)

would vineger and distilled water work just as good??? as I got a heap of that as that is what I mix for my LCD screen cleaner 50/50 mix. If that would work what ratios???

I do the same process for bottles as the fermenter as well I also clean and sanitise the tap befor racking and bottling

 

[Thirsty Boy]

vinegar and distilled water wont do anything much in the way of sanitation.

You can make up a cheap no-rise sanitiser with houshold bleach, white vinegar and water. The idea is that by adding vinegar to a bleach solution, you lower the pH, which makes the solution an effective sanitiser at concentrations of bleach that dont need to be rinsed out.

I have used this a number of times with sucess, I know others do the same, and the concept was suggested (to me at least) by Charlie Tally who owns the company that makes starsan... so a man who knows his sanitising agents.

you take 19L of water, add 30ml of unscented household bleach and stir it in, then add 30ml of white vinegar and stir it in.

Rinse all surfaces thoroughly in the solution, splashing, swirling or dunking - just makes sure everything gets contact and stays in contact with the sanitiser for 20 or 30 seconds. Drain well but no need to rinse - immediately before using it in your brewing process.

Same with all the commercial no-rinse sanitisers. Swish, swirl, spray - just get contact with the surface and give it a little contact time. Drain well but dont rinse.

Your problem doesn't sound like and infection issue anyway - but its always good to make sure your sanitation is up to snuff.

TB

 

[Yob]

Try to pay attention to the very small areas like the TAP and THREADS of your fermenter... An easy place to miss and cop an infection...

I purchsed and use a small steam jet.. er the "Steam Matey" I believe... Approx $50 from Godfreys or such, which you can put INSIDE the Tap and get right into the threads.... and steam BLAST the crap out of it. All without having to scrub any of the parts with annoying toothbrushes etc...

Awesome!!

 

[jbowers]

Ok, so just to clarify - if the bottles are clean, spraying the insides with a no rinse sanitiser is an effective sanitisation before bottling?

 

[Cube]

Ok, so just to clarify - if the bottles are clean, spraying the insides with a no rinse sanitiser is an effective sanitisation before bottling?

If you brewed your beer in a bath tub why bother cleaning your bottles properly?

Sorry mate -that was just to get the point across that a 'quick spray' is not good enough. Immersion is the only way to be 100% sure that they are good to go. Of course, and as above comments, they have to be clean first. I like to be 100% sure my bottles are the best they can be and not just 'she'll be right mate'. An exploding beer bottle due to infection is never a cool thing.

It's always on my mind that I am so clean all the way through the stages and to stuff up at the last bit ie: bottling it's a real shame.

Let us know which way you go mate.

 

[jbowers]

Ok, that sounds reasonable. Will have to get starsan then, as making up a few litres of the brewcraft stuff is really costly.

So I reckon my procedure with bottles will just be rinse with water/clean if necessary after use and then immerse in star san before bottling - simple but hopefully effective!

Also just picked up some sodium perc so thats what I'll be using to clean other gear from now on.

 

[manticle]

Essentially all surfaces inside the bottle need to contact with the sanitising solution for the required time. The easiest way to make sure that happens is immersion but even filling a third of a bottle at a time with starsan and giving it a good shake will do it. You can make up say a litre of starsan solution and use it to sanitise all the bottles (fill say 6 bottles at a time then pour that back into a clean jug and do the next lot).

 

[bum]

No affiliation?

The opening is a bit too small for 2L plastic pop bottles but you can still use it if you hold the top of the bottle against the side of the plunger.

I just use a suitable washer over the top.

 

[ben_sa]

that post reminds me of that annoying salesman pitches from the morning tv programs......

No offence but did you copy that straight from a catalogue?

 

[The Mad Hopper]

It's always on my mind that I am so clean all the way through the stages and to stuff up at the last bit ie: bottling it's a real shame.

Exactly. Take into account the cost and effort prior to bottling and what does an hour or two cleaning bottles really matter. If you start doing AG, then this is the kind of stuff you can do during mashing and boiling anyway.

 

[Nick JD]

I boil 2 liters of water in the kettle, pour it into the fermenter, put the lid on and shake it a bit. The shaking turns the boiling water into presurised steam that shoots out the airlock hole. So the entire inside of the fermenter is close to 100C.

Then I lay the fermenter on its side on the kitchen bench. With the cubes it's one side at a time so the boiling water heats up the sides. I leave it on each side for about a minute.

At the sink (and being very careful here) I open the tap while holding the tap (the heat makes the thread very loose) and run the water out into the sink.

At this stage the entire fermenter is almost too hot to hold onto.

No infections.

I rinse my PET bottles with hot tap water three times each (but they are immaculately CLEAN before I do this).

I've started using napisan to clean my cube fermenters without any scrubbing though, but still doing the boiling water thing. Sanitisers are useless unless things are clean first. Boiling water will "cook" bugs that are in crevices - like around the tap.

 

[booyablack]

Ok, so just to clarify - if the bottles are clean, spraying the insides with a no rinse sanitiser is an effective sanitisation before bottling?

Get yourself a bottle brush. They're cheap and are a good, effective way of cleaning the inside of the bottles when used in conjunction with brewer's detergent. After you've cleaned, rinsed and dried your bottles you just need to store them somewhere away from dust etc. and then give them a good sanitise on bottling day.

 

[kelbygreen]

one thing I wondered the other day when bottling. how long does the sanitising last??? I know the quicker you bottle when sanitised would be better but is there a rule of thumb so to say how long befor it needs to be done again. As the last bottle you do would be a good 10+mins from when you sanitised it.

I try to bottle with the first bottle I sanitised and in that order till the last. Hard to keep track of but is kind possible. Not sure if there is any advantage in that or not. But what if you sanitise and have to go out for half a hour for some reason (maybe forgot to pick up a carton?) lol would it still be ok to bottle or would you have to sanitise again.

main reason I ask is that i think I put to much bleach in the water so wanted it to drain as much as I could. But tasted the water (didnt drink it) and it didnt have a bleach taste so I figured with 700ml of beer ontop wont hurt. I have drunk water out the tap befor that was worse. Was only really a smell more then a taste but didnt want it in the beer of coarse