Royal Commission into botched home insulation scheme.

[Ducatiboy stu]

http://m.canberratimes.com.au/comment/pink-batts-royal-commission-could-rebound-on-abbott-20140110-30my7.html

 

[professional_drunk]

May 12, 2016: In news today prime minister Bill Shorten announces a royal commission into why Scott Morrison wasn't present on Manus Island to supervise the guards that could have prevented the death of an asylum seeker and multiple injuries sustained by other asylum seekers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

May 12, 2016: In news today prime minister Bill Shorten announces a royal commission into why Scott Morrison wasn't present on Manus Island to supervise the guards that could have prevented the death of an asylum seeker and multiple injuries sustained by other asylum seekers.

and widened the terms so see how the decisions where made and hoe the funding was supplied quickly

In Seperate news Opposition leader Arthur Sinodinous refutes Bill Shortens Royal Commision by stating "The government only funded the asylum seeker and refugee scheme. We where not responsible for training and employing gaurds. We only stated that they needed to be trained and qualified."

 

[dammag]

Where is the SWMS the contractors supplied for installing insulation, particularly foil insulation.

They should all obviously state isolate all power before entering ceiling space. If they don't then what? Is it the Government who failed to ask for the SWMS or the Employer who failed to enforce it?

There is so much safety legislation these day's that it is generally over the top. Where did this example fall down.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its up to the employer to enforce the employee to fill it out. The gov agency, workcover, is responsible for prosecuting the employer for not having the SWMS & JSA's filled out. But rarely do you see a workcover inspector out and about checking. But if things go toes up..the first thing they want is SWMS. If you cant produce them on the spot...your in the poo. The employer must be able to produce them on demand. I have been on sites where the Workcover dude rocked up ......oh boy....wasnt that a fun morning...

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Where is the SWMS the contractors supplied for installing insulation, particularly foil insulation.

They should all obviously state isolate all power before entering ceiling space. If they don't then what? Is it the Government who failed to ask for the SWMS or the Employer who failed to enforce it?

There is so much safety legislation these day's that it is generally over the top. Where did this example fall down.

NSW Workcover legeslation (2000) states that the employer shall have SWMS & JSA's filled for all jobs, and it is the employee's responsibility to fill out the form to the rquirement of the employer. Supervisors and managers are responsible for employee's complying to these direction. There are incrementle penalties increasing from the employee all the way to the general manager and CEO.

 

[QldKev]

Up here I was chasing to use up the Gov grant for insulation without any out of pocket expense. A few offered to insulate the main house without the lower section (low roof) which I was not in favor for as it made up 1/3 of the house. I was looking at one that offered to insulate the main house, and leave enough bats for the lower section so I could do it myself. Final quote ended up offering blow-in insulation for the lot. Talking to the laborer on the day I asked where are the fan and down-light surrounds. From my sheetmetal trade I knew these were common back in WA. He said they don't use them, they just turn all the exhaust fans on in the house when they blow the insulation in to prevent it falling onto them. Obviously the insualtion covered all down lights. Needless to say, within 1 month I had bits of paper insulation and shit blowing back into the house every windy day. Even the insulation looked like treated paper and not real insulation, you could still read print on it.

Do I blame the Gov, no way, I thank them for offering the incentive. I blame the local company for dodgy practices and think that's who they should be chasing.

 

[Lemon]

In many small businesses there aren't the resources, time, safety dedicated personnel, or the risk of being inspected, that there is in large business(much of my experience).
Simply put, if I've never been asked, or told about swms, jsa, etc, let alone ever been visited, or any of my surrounding associates, either, why would I worry?
That said very hard to drop in to inspect a worksite in a private property (not sure that the home qualifies as a place of work under the w/c definition, but the work does). And very difficult to find a mobile PCBU (employer) who doesn't want to be found.

Lemon

 

[OzPaleAle]

Up here I was chasing to use up the Gov grant for insulation without any out of pocket expense. A few offered to insulate the main house without the lower section (low roof) which I was not in favor for as it made up 1/3 of the house. I was looking at one that offered to insulate the main house, and leave enough bats for the lower section so I could do it myself. Final quote ended up offering blow in insulation for the lot. Talking to the laborer on the day I asked where are the fan and down-light surrounds. From my sheetmetal trade I knew these were common back in WA. He said they don't use them, they just turn all the exhaust fans on in the house when they blow the insulation in to prevent it falling onto them. Obviously it covered all down lights. Needless to say, within 1 month I had bits of paper insulation and shit blowing back into the house every windy day. Even the insulation looked like treated paper and not real insulation, you could still read print on it.

Do I blame the Gov, no way I thank them for offering the incentive. I blame the local company for dodgy practices and think that's who they should be chasing.

Ahh blow in insulation, one of the biggest regrets when we built, its horrible stuff. My builders solution for the fans was folded cardboard…..

 

[bradsbrew]

Where is the SWMS the contractors supplied for installing insulation, particularly foil insulation.

They should all obviously state isolate all power before entering ceiling space. If they don't then what? Is it the Government who failed to ask for the SWMS or the Employer who failed to enforce it?

There is so much safety legislation these day's that it is generally over the top. Where did this example fall down.

Despite the national OHS harmonisation, all states are still responsible for enforcement of workplace health and safety. The department of justice and attorney general controls in QLD, as in all states of Australia people are required to undergo training in general site induction before working within the construction industry. This training includes endorsed and non-endorsed components, in QLD, ASQA governs whether the training company is meeting compliance. At the time of the scheme there was a transition from DETA to ASQA as the controlling national body, except for the states that would not participate which throws national harmonisation right out the window.
Back to the GSI/whitecard, or whatever colour your state has, every person who enters a worksite should know how to perform a risk assessment and know their rights if asked to perform an unsafe act. As an employer, you have a responsibility to provide a safe worksite/area for each employee. If an employer decides to engage an employee to perform a job that entails a high risk activity such as work in a confined space or around exposed electrical cable, (yes QLD still does not require electrical cable within a roofspace to be contained within a conduit) a readily available risk assessment/JSA/SWMS should be on site and accessible by each employee.
This is why online whitecard training has been investigated by the governing bodies.
Many RTO , registered training organisations, also took the many grab and pushed through training without investigating the requirements needed to meet compliance.
This is where the training authority could come under investigation, how were these training companies meeting compliance under their scope of registration?

In closing, how can the prime minister, as leader of the body funding a scheme, be held accountable for the actions of people at different levels, for whom legal obligations and responsibilities are a pre-requisite to undertaking the project.
If this is the precedent, the prime minister could be held accountable for each and every death on Australian jobsites.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

In many small businesses there aren't the resources, time, safety dedicated personnel, or the risk of being inspected, that there is in large business(much of my experience).
Simply put, if I've never been asked, or told about swms, jsa, etc, let alone ever been visited, or any of my surrounding associates, either, why would I worry?
That said very hard to drop in to inspect a worksite in a private property (not sure that the home qualifies as a place of work under the w/c definition, but the work does). And very difficult to find a mobile PCBU (employer) who doesn't want to be found.

Lemon

If its your home and your doing the work its ok. But as soon as you employ or paysomeone to do work then workcover kicks in. Either you become responsible for worksite safety or the tradesman you hire is responsible. It becomes a case of who is working for who. Normally a tradie has workcover and public liabilty. As do builders. But you then have to be aware that the builder may take responsible of your house, and you then have to abide by his directions.

 

[bradsbrew]

If its your home and your doing the work its ok. But as soon as you employ or paysomeone to do work then workcover kicks in. Either you become responsible for worksite safety or the tradesman you hire is responsible. It becomes a case of who is working for who. Normally a tradie has workcover and public liabilty. As do builders. But you then have to be aware that the builder may take responsible of your house, and you then have to abide by his directions.

And as many homeowners whom employ contractors fail to understand is they become the principal contractor, so if the sub contractor fails to have personal injury or liability insurance the home owner is responsible.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

And as many homeowners whom employ contractors fail to understand is they become the principal contractor, so if the sub contractor fails to have personal injury or liability insurance the home owner is responsible.

Yes. Very much so. If someone comes on your property and gets injured....you cope it. Thats why your home insurance has public liability.

 

[AndrewQLD]

We have to pay an annual insurance to cover the cleaning lady who spends 2 hours a fortnight cleaning our house in case she sprains her self picking up the dustpan and brush.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Yes. Very much so. If someone comes on your property and gets injured....you cope it. Thats why your home insurance has public liability.

Public liability on your home insurance doesn't cover someone you are paying to do work on your property.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Public liability on your home insurance doesn't cover someone you are paying to do work on your property.

If they are a licenced tradie then they should have there own.

 

[bradsbrew]

If they are a licenced tradie then they should have there own.

Yes they should, and most people would just expect they do. But if they don't the home owner suffers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think its part of your licence registration that you do have insurance

 

[dammag]

I am a contractor, I have my own Pty Ltd company and I have all insurances and licences for what I do.

I am required to do a JSA for every job that I do. I would think that these contractors would be required to do the same.

Who is at fault? The party that didn't enforce these requirements or the party that didn't fulfil these requirements?

 

[Black Devil Dog]

In Qld, works up to $3,300 inc GST, can be done by unlicenced operators. I would imagine that if they're unlicenced, they would probably be uninsured also.

To get work on any substantial job sites you need to be Pty Ltd Co, licenced, insured, along with all the other OH&S requirements, but to do small stuff, I don't reckon you do. Might be wrong.

I can't remember how much our insulation would have cost (if they gave us a $ value) and I'd have to look it up, but the missus is out and I couldn't be arsed. I'm sure it was under $3,300.