Reusing Cubes That Contained Tough Chemicals.....

[Plastic Man]

+1 the fresh wort pack idea. $38 for beer / $2 for cube.

dumping a fresh wort pack on a yeast cake after bottling / kegging is an easy way to keep supply up. Being a bit experimental in terms of what style you dump on what yeast is also interesting and you can try some things that you may not invest the labour of a full brew day in doing. If your normal cost of doing a batch is say $20, then the incremental cost of buying a cube of fresh wort is only $20, and you get a cube and 20 litres of decent beer.

(plus your supporting a micro)

 

[n4077113]

i work in a kitchen and I'm sure if the joint is big enough (mine not that big and i still use em) they have "cubes" that has had normal dish-washing detergent..



as for these chems killing you, guys these are used on food prep surfaces (HDC Heavy Duty Cleaner, is a pink soap and caustic degreaser)

line cleaner wont do it nether will caustic you will need an acid, like vinegar to start that will neutralize the chemical. then rinse with boiling water, the HDC drums you might not have much luck with, try the dish washing machine detergent (also hit with lots of vinegar and hot water) as they have no soap or smell just a caustic solution, or even the grill cleaner normally has no fragrance but is REALLY caustic so be dam careful as it will burn your skin. but vinegar will neutralize all the nasties.. not so much the smells

yep, amen to most of that.

Its true that the chemicals in the cubes I was keeping are all used on food prep surfaces and so maybe not as bad ass as I conveyed. They come in (diluted) contact with plates, cutlery, prep surfaces etc. Ive started hording the cubes that carry olive oil (!) and after a very good clean am using these ones (only). Tap water from these tastes normal after sitting in them for a week.

I was originally thinking line cleaner for the nastier cubes cause a guy in a HBS mentioned to me that this was also a ODOUR remover, I think the main problem was the fragrance. Think I'll just stick with the olive oil cubes.....

 

[manticle]

I used to work in kitchens too (both dishpig and chef) and my experience of those chemicals is that they are not something I would want in or near a brew. Sure, some of them get used on stainless bench tops but not only do they usually get wiped clean but most food prep takes place on a plastic board that sits on the stainless bench. Perhaps if the cubes themselves were stainless steel it would be ok but plastic (particularly that grade of plastic) is more permeable. Add to that that any chemicals that go on said boards or anything in direct contact with the food is rinsed thoroughly first (or should be). Would you drink or eat the chemicals? If not then why brew/store wort in something that's been soaking in it for nigh on three months?

The chemicals may be sanitary but sanitary can still be toxic/noxious.

Each to there own but I'd personally stay far, far away.

 

[DUANNE]

yep, amen to most of that.

Its true that the chemicals in the cubes I was keeping are all used on food prep surfaces and so maybe not as bad ass as I conveyed. They come in (diluted) contact with plates, cutlery, prep surfaces etc. Ive started hording the cubes that carry olive oil (!) and after a very good clean am using these ones (only). Tap water from these tastes normal after sitting in them for a week.

I was originally thinking line cleaner for the nastier cubes cause a guy in a HBS mentioned to me that this was also a ODOUR remover, I think the main problem was the fragrance. Think I'll just stick with the olive oil cubes.....

there could be an advantage to this . if your areation is not up to scratch a bit of residual olive may be just the ticket for a better ferment. :icon_cheers:

 

[muckanic]

Seems strange dicussing certain flavours created by different pitching rates, ferment temps, yeast strains etc on one hand,w hile storing hot/cooling beer in a container with even the slightest residual odour..

The other major irony is objecting to cubes that have contained industrial cleaners and then using what are effectively other industrial cleaners to either clean them or to sterilise new ones! Who says the original stuff is any worse than scented Nappisan?

I must admit I haven't tried acid, but I can't really see how it would remove the scent component.

 

[manticle]

It's a fair point but the difference might be the amount of time the chemical spends inside a semi-permeable substance. Kithcen cleaners are in there for months, napisan less than 48 hours unless you forget it's there.

 

[drsmurto]

An acid based cleaner/sanitiser would have been my approach.

Either that or some diluted vinegar (acetic acid), citric or tartaric acid, all available from the supermarket shelf.

All capable of causing you as much damage as the residue in that container if used incorrectly (the fact that some of you buy no rinse sanitisers that come in the form of a concentrate that has the capacity to cause severe burns yet you are scared of a container that had an alkaline cleaner in it i find very ironic - totally agree with you muckanic)

Follow that up with several thorough water rinses.

If you can still smell a cleaner/fragrance then i would be tempted to ditch it.

Of course, you need to know what the container is made of, is it food grade HDPE or something else?

EDIT - pre-morning coffee grammar

 

[HoppingMad]

Fresh Wort Kit as others have said - $38/$2 for cube
Cubes from Aussie Disposals -$11.95 according to their website
Rays Outdoors & Kmart and the like - around $14.95 at most retailers

Seems cheaper and less time consuming than making and then tipping a ruined beer.

Hopper.

 

[Tony121]

Hi all, resurrecting this thread as opposed to starting a new one.

I have just come into a few cubes that have had cleaner in them and was wondering if there are any more thoughts on this? Currently soaking one of them to see if I can get the chemical smell out.

I'm not hell bent on using them, I got them for nothing so no loss.

Anyway, any thoughts on whether I should use or toss?

Thanks in advance,
Tony

 

[Vini2ton]

Back in another life I had access to as many 25 litre cubes as i wanted. Scored a few for water storage out bush. Still got them and use them. They contained pure ethanol. So if you have any mates who work in pathology labs, ask about it. This was 20 years ago, back when they made things to last. Industrial perfumes? Nah.

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

No.

The reason is simple chemistry: the cubes are polythene which is a non polar, long linear chain polymer. The chains randomly coil leaving lots of void space. When in contact with small to medium sized volatile non-polar molecules, these molecules diffuse into the void spaces in the polymer.

To get them out again requires a diffusion gradient, eg contact with something that is more attractive to the molecules than is the polymer. The only things that are more attractive are small to medium sized volatile non-polar molecules.....

 

[Zorco]

You are the best LC. All of humanity is smarter because you're here to teach.

Tony's question was one I've had for a long time now.

 

[Tony121]

Sorts that out then. Thank you.

 

[altone]

I know I'm coming in late here but I've used pre-loved cubes before.

The perfumed detergents - forget it.

If the kitchen you work in has cubes that contained wipe-down - they clean up well with a long soak in Napisan or PBW
Same with Soy or Chilli Sauce - they may be a bit discolored but if you give them a good soak first - should be fine.
I used ex Soy sauce and cooking oil cubes for ages with good results.

Obviously new food grade HDPE cubes are better and the cubes I use now are all ex fresh wort containers.

But those on a super tight budget, check the back of your local chinese takeaway.

Oh, and if your local supermarket has a special on large mineral water containers - cheap and no need to clean

 

[Stouter]

I toyed with the idea of getting some secondhand chemical/detergents cube last month. I was having a really hard time finding any new ones which were suitable. Blue Bunnings ones didn't handle the heat well, others at auto and camping shops were too expensive.
Finally sourced some brand new food grade 20L and 25L cubes from a local cleaning equipment supplier. I guess there's cleaning companies they supply which would mix down from the 44gal drums of concentrates into these cubes.
Tried the first one the other day and it's magic. The lid thread and seal handled the heat, as did the actual cube walls, though I suspect after a few brews it might deform shape slightly. $16 each, thanks for coming. Stoked!

Regarding the after brew storage smell, I know with my fermenters there's always a lingering smell even after overnight soaking in sodium perc. Would it pay in any way to reuse the cube with the same style of brew? Brew style dedicated cubes.

 

[goatchop41]

Also check with Veterinary clinics - a lot of them get distilled water in 20-25L HDPE cubes.

One place where you don't want to get them even though they have heaps - dry cleaning businesses. I spotted some at my local and they let me have them. Got them home and checked the labels - all of them had some variety of warning about the contents being poisonous or corrosive....No thank you. They went straight back to the bin at the back door of the dry cleaners!

 

[altone]

Also check with Veterinary clinics - a lot of them get distilled water in 20-25L HDPE cubes.

One place where you don't want to get them even though they have heaps - dry cleaning businesses. I spotted some at my local and they let me have them. Got them home and checked the labels - all of them had some variety of warning about the contents being poisonous or corrosive....No thank you. They went straight back to the bin at the back door of the dry cleaners!

Damn never thought of Vets - good tip!

I guess the golden rule is, only use them if they had inert items like water, IPA etc or foodstuffs.
No toxic cleaning products, chemicals you've never heard of and such.

AND If you don't know what was in it before - don't use it!!!

 

[Zorco]

Damn never thought of Vets - good tip!

I guess the golden rule is, only use them if they had inert items like water, IPA etc or foodstuffs.
No toxic cleaning products, chemicals you've never heard of and such.

AND If you don't know what was in it before - don't use it!!!

AND

Post 31

 

[tugger]

I have a heap of used cubes free to a good home. All rinsed with caps. Near Liverpool.

 

[damoninja]

Simple process

• Step 1: Dont.