Reducing Oxidation while Bottling

[Luxo_Aussie]

Has anyone tried using the oxygen scavenging / absorption caps? The should (in theory) lower the risk of oxidation for bottled beers. I've started using them on the past two batches but haven't bottled any with the old caps as a control.

Oxidation hasn't been a problem for me over my past 45 batches, with several bottles aged for over a year as well. I only got these caps more thinking of them as a cheap insurance policy for hoppy or aged beers.

 

[kadmium]

I don't know how well they work, and they recommend you don't sanitise them which is odd. Clean and sanitary are different things, but that's just me.

Capping on foam and PET bottles helps for beers you won't store for long periods.

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

Pet bottles, squeeze all the air out before you fully tighten the cap not sure it makes any difference but it makes me feel better about it

 

[butisitart]

Pet bottles, squeeze all the air out before you fully tighten the cap not sure it makes any difference but it makes me feel better about it

luxo_aussie is in luxembourg. he's probably got a shed full of 500ml brown german swing-tops in plastic crates.
(quietly sobbing in the corner here)

 

[Luxo_Aussie]

luxo_aussie is in luxembourg. he's probably got a shed full of 500ml brown german swing-tops in plastic crates.
(quietly sobbing in the corner here)

Plastic crates yes, swing tops no. 27 crates of this.

 

[butisitart]

Plastic crates yes, swing tops no. 27 crates of this.

for me, plastic crates for 500ml swing tops for 500ml (SOOO much faster and cheaper on capping), i think all up i've actually got 27 crates too haha. got the 330ml crates off a japanese restaurant mate.
so i use 500 swing tops for higher rotation and 330ml caps for stuff i'm going to age, at 30 bottles per crate. super handy. got about 30 fensburger 330 ml swing tops but they're a bugger to store. as wide as a 500ml bottle so they won't fit in the smaller crate compartments. i thought you'd be rolling in swing tops LOL.

 

[Luxo_Aussie]

for me, plastic crates for 500ml swing tops for 500ml (SOOO much faster and cheaper on capping), i think all up i've actually got 27 crates too haha. got the 330ml crates off a japanese restaurant mate.
so i use 500 swing tops for higher rotation and 330ml caps for stuff i'm going to age, at 30 bottles per crate. super handy. got about 30 fensburger 330 ml swing tops but they're a bugger to store. as wide as a 500ml bottle so they won't fit in the smaller crate compartments. i thought you'd be rolling in swing tops LOL.

It was a hard decision but was concerned with the degradation of the rubber over time on the swing top caps and with this not knowing if one bottle had gone through 6 batches vs. one which was brand new without a detailed inspection of each before bottling. The caps just get replaced each batch so there no need to check anything aside from the bottles being clean. Do you replace the rubber very often?

 

[butisitart]

It was a hard decision but was concerned with the degradation of the rubber over time on the swing top caps and with this not knowing if one bottle had gone through 6 batches vs. one which was brand new without a detailed inspection of each before bottling. The caps just get replaced each batch so there no need to check anything aside from the bottles being clean. Do you replace the rubber very often?

if it's just too easy to clamp the cap on when bottling, i replace. but, when i was collecting bottles from a club-restaurant bin, there were always broken swing-top bottles , so i cannibalised the swing-tops and never had to pay for a new seal. i've got about 400 swing tops, i've replaced maybe 10-15 swing top units in the 6 years i've been using them, and i've got about 50 complete units sitting there. i think they've all gone through an awful lot more than 6 batches, i'm guessing comfortably more than 20 for a lot of them.
on the other hand, capping my longer term beers was an insurance policy i engaged in when i was a bit nervous on swing top seal degradation. now it's partly habit, and partly just cos i like the aged, often higher abv's in the smaller bottles. feels a bit more of a treat when i have one.
for a detailed inspection of the seals, you'd need better eyes than me LOL. when a swing-top starts going soft (easier to clamp shut), i mark the lid with a waterproof marker to keep an eye on it. it is quite noticeable how much softer it will go from one capping to the next.
and the other bonus when sanitising bottles on a plunger is - the caps are attached to the bottles, so they get dunked in the sanitising as you're going along. there's not much to not like about them.

 

[Simon N]

Just to add my 2 cents... I bottled a session neipa 6 weeks ago (verdant yeast, 25% malted wheat, dry hop 8g/l) and tried a few different techniques. Results in photo below from left to right are 1) standard head space, 2) standard headspace with SMB, 3) only 1mm or so headspace.
Colour change is obvious. In a semi-blind test I could easily identify the no headspace beer, other two I couldn’t tell apart.
Will be bottling with no headspace (and no SMB addition) for hoppy beers from now on.

 

[MHB]

OK the effect of Oxygen on highly hopped beers is pretty obvious. In terms of an experiment it's nice to get such clear results.
If you are bottling in glass leaving no ullage has always been regarded as a recipe for bottle bombs. No explosions or did you bottle in PET?
Be good to see the results of properly CO2 purged bottles, theory says that should give the best results, no O2 and a working amount of head space.
How did the taste change, particularly between 1 and 3?
Good experiment, looking forward to seeing how the beer ages (assuming there is some left), would like to hear more about the flavour to.
Mark

 

[Ballaratguy]

Just to add my 2 cents... I bottled a session neipa 6 weeks ago (verdant yeast, 25% malted wheat, dry hop 8g/l) and tried a few different techniques. Results in photo below from left to right are 1) standard head space, 2) standard headspace with SMB, 3) only 1mm or so headspace.
Colour change is obvious. In a semi-blind test I could easily identify the no headspace beer, other two I couldn’t tell apart.
Will be bottling with no headspace (and no SMB addition) for hoppy beers from now on.

Ok what is SMB?

 

[MHB]

sodium metabisulfite

 

[yankinoz]

One caution: No head space leaves no room for expansion of the beer. It isn't just freezing that's a likely problem. Water and most aqueous solutions begin to expand as the temperature falls below 4 degrees C. The expansion is slight, but enough to burst glass bottles (liquid expansion is a more formidable force than gaseous expansion). I say that from experience, and, no, the beer did not freeze.

So, either keep conditioning temps >4 (no problem for NEIPAs), leave 0.5 mm or so headspace , or use CO2. I've also heard of people using a small headspace, capping loosely, waiting a minute or so while CO2 from the beer forces out air, and then tightening the cap. With swing-tops, maybe.

Then there are PET bottles, but not for me.

 

[Simon N]

Glass bottles… the low headspace ranged from about 5mm to 1mm just below the cap. Didn’t notice an obvious difference between them so will stick to 5mm to be safer. Also conditioned and chilled in wine fridge to prevent temp fluctuations. Certainly not be practice but have no access to co2 at present.

Big difference in aroma - low headspace you could clearly detect the different hops (citra and galaxy), others were lower in aroma and somewhat muted. I thought I detected sulfer in the SMB one when I first opened it, but in blind I couldn’t detect. Flavour difference was mainly that 1 and 2 were sweeter, and a more muddled hop flavour. No cardboard yet, which I have detected in the past.

These were the last 3 bottles as do small batches and try not to keep hoppy beers around too long.

 

[MHB]

Keeping a NEPIA that pale and bright for 6 weeks is a credit to you.
I describe the Oxygen affected ones I have tasted as muddy, through to dish water in really bad cases.
Fortunatly for me it's not a style I want to be drinking or brewing often.
I found this interesting

Ribes is a blackcurant flavour tha is a precursor to Cardboard.
There is a better version in Kunze, I'll try to dig it up if you are interested.
Mark