Reducing Infection When Transfering To Secondary

[Malko]

Hi guys, New to this forum and homebrewing so I'll do a big SHOUT OUT!

I had a conversation with my local brew guy in the best way I could transfer to a secondary without too much risk of infection to the batch. I had a thought of (besides adequate sanitation) to transfer the brew while it was towards the end of the fermentation phase allowing Co2 to build up faster in the secondary forcing the air out. Is this going to reduce the oxidation more than prevent infection? is it a issue I should be worried about? whats the best way to do it (I've seen plenty on youtube)?

 

[Wolfy]

The best way to reduce the risk of anything bad happening with your beer regarding the use of 'secondary' fermentors, is to skip it all-together.
Many people - on these forums and elsewhere - have moved away from the idea of 'secondary' fermentors, for most beers and most beer styles, however much of the HB literature has not caught up yet.

If you insist on using a secondary, the best way I have found to do it is from 'tap to tap' - by connecting a bit of plastic tube to the tap of one fermentor directly to the other - then transfer the beer that way.

If anything, the 'best' time to transfer the beer is while it is still young and the yeast are active, that way their activity will help reduce the risk of infection and they will also consume any oxygen that you mix in, however transferring early tends to defeat the purpose of moving the beer off the yeast cake, if that is the logic behind you using a secondary fermentor.

 

[InCider]

The best way to reduce the risk of anything bad happening with your beer regarding the use of 'secondary' fermentors, is to skip it all-together.

Beat me to it Wolfy, but absolutely the way to go! :icon_cheers:

 

[jonw]

Welcome to AHB!

As the other guys have said, I wouldn't worry about doing a secondary fermentation for the time being. Get a few brews under your belt, and then try it and see if it makes any difference. I don't bother.

Cheers,

Jon

 

[kelbygreen]

yep I dont bother. done it once for a lager and done 2 more lagers since no difference all 3 was as equally clear. Just another process to add time and risk of infection and oxidisation I think thats not really needed. I left a brew in primary to ferment for 15 days and larger for 5 weeks no ill effects. Reasons you want to transfer may be handy?? as for fruit beers I think it helps (dont quote me on it) but I have never done one so cant say

 

[Malko]

I was going to secondary mainly to get a crisper taste to the lager. I have been fermenting the beer at 15C for the past 4 days and was going to finish off the process in secondary after 2 weeks in primary just to get it off the cake incase of "off tastes. but it seems everyone agrees that secondary is not required to get the best finish possible. I'm mainly getting technical with it because I want to make the best beer I can.

 

[rotten]

I still rack to secondary as I beleive it does help with clarity to some extent. HOWEVER, it's mainly to get my hands on the yeastcake. I also like to cold chill where possible to drop more stuff out of suspension, thus helping produce a clearer brew (maybe)
If I get behind though, I don't bother. I do think these brews have more cloudiness.
My 2 c
Cheers

 

[kelbygreen]

yeah you could be right rotten, as I have never tried it with a ale only lagers so after 4-5weeks CC they will drop. I also wouldnt be as concerned when bottling. I now keg and to keg one day and drink the next cloudiness is a issue. I try to use fining and CC longer but some yeast just take there time lol. Wish I had a filter

 

[michaelcocks]

There only appears be risk in secondary fermentation to me
If you yeast is in good health and your vessel clean and sanitary there should be nothing to fear in leaving on the primary yeast cake for a few weeks.
Most home brewers these days recommend a single vessel fermentation...

Ducks as flame war starts ....

 

[Wolfy]

I was going to secondary mainly to get a crisper taste to the lager. I have been fermenting the beer at 15C for the past 4 days and was going to finish off the process in secondary after 2 weeks in primary just to get it off the cake incase of "off tastes. but it seems everyone agrees that secondary is not required to get the best finish possible. I'm mainly getting technical with it because I want to make the best beer I can.

In the 'Yeast' book the authors outline a number of reasons why leaving the beer on the yeast for a longer period actually helps the beer becasue the yeast will 'clean up' after itself, however - other than fruit or other specialty beers - they suggest there is no good reason to use a secondary fermentor.

 

[yum beer]

I rack into a secondary when I am close to my expected FG, but still some airlock activity. I add finnings and then cold condition at 0-1c for 4-7 days.



I find the aeration allows a small 'kick on' from the yeast which is enough to expell any oxygen leaving the brew to clean up and settle nicely. I bottle crystal clear beer.

 

[bcp]

Ok, but i'm assuming unless you have kegs you're racking to a secondary vessel for bottling? I don't think i ever got consistent carbonation until i did that.

(And how the hell did i get beer god status? Just shows ignorance is no barrier to claims of divinity. Perhaps it helps).

 

[Malko]

I am convinced that secondary is probably not required for what I am doing and would expose the brew to a unnecessary amount of infection. I am planning on CC'ing the brew I have a fridge and freezer coming in the next few days, at the moment I am using an ice bath to keep the temp constant 12-15C. I have been extensively reading up on the forum topics and think I have the system nutted out. but if I'm not going to secondary then is it ok to put the primary in for CC at 0-2C?

 

[rotten]

I am convinced that secondary is probably not required for what I am doing and would expose the brew to a unnecessary amount of infection. I am planning on CC'ing the brew I have a fridge and freezer coming in the next few days, at the moment I am using an ice bath to keep the temp constant 12-15C. I have been extensively reading up on the forum topics and think I have the system nutted out. but if I'm not going to secondary then is it ok to put the primary in for CC at 0-2C?

Yes

 

[felten]

Perfectly fine to CC in the primary. If autolysis was going to happen, chilling the beer down would delay it by quite a while, so if you're chilling in the primary you can leave it there for an extended time (few more weeks?).


edit: Someone needs to scan that section of the yeast book just for threads like this. They make a compelling argument.

 

[RdeVjun]

FWIW, it has annoyed the piss out of me, however just lately I've been doing quite a few 'secondary' transfers. I've been caught on the hop for yeast, so I've needed to get to a batch of slurry before I'd normally take a beer off it, i.e. at bottling/ kegging. Needless to say, a couple of infections seem to have crept in to what were apparently batches of quite fine beer at the end of ferment... :angry: I'd like to think it is just coincidence... :unsure:

 

[Malko]

I might as well document the progress in this topic rather than start a new one.

4 days old...


Notes: Fermentation started immediately and all equipment was sanitised. Towel was wraped around the fermenter to maintain a constant temp.
salted water was added to the air lock. Added extra water as hydrometer reading was 1.050 now 1.040

Let the fermenter stand for 4 hours before putting it into a ice bathe to reduce temerpature. Approx 6hrs later temp had dropped from 28C to 24C
added extra ice and water to increase constant temp control and temp remains at 20C. Used foam insulation and old wet shirt (touching water)
to help keep the brew cool. Ambient temp approx 24C. attached digital thermometer to fermenter, Second day temp dipped to 18C then further to 15C, 4th day down to 12C

 

[Punkal]

Looks like your keeping good notes... That is a big step in the right direction for making better beer...

 

[Filby]

I might as well document the progress in this topic rather than start a new one.

4 days old...


Notes: Fermentation started immediately and all equipment was sanitised. Towel was wraped around the fermenter to maintain a constant temp.
salted water was added to the air lock. Added extra water as hydrometer reading was 1.050 now 1.040

Let the fermenter stand for 4 hours before putting it into a ice bathe to reduce temerpature. Approx 6hrs later temp had dropped from 28C to 24C
added extra ice and water to increase constant temp control and temp remains at 20C. Used foam insulation and old wet shirt (touching water)
to help keep the brew cool. Ambient temp approx 24C. attached digital thermometer to fermenter, Second day temp dipped to 18C then further to 15C, 4th day down to 12C


View attachment 45354

When did you pitch the yeast? If it was on the first day then the majority of the fermentation has occurred above the preferred lager yeast fermenting temp so you are very like to get esters forming and, depending on the yeast, a whole lot of sulphur. IMO I would use a 'clean' ale yeast like US05 or Nottingham when doing a 'lager' style beer without a fermenting fridge. They are happy to ferment at lower temperatures and at 15-18deg they wont produce a lot of undesirable flavours, whereas a lager yeast at warm temperatures will produce a lot. Hopefully this batch turns out well!


Fil

 

[Bribie G]

Looks like you are well on the way Malko. I bet you are now plotting how to get a dedicated fermenting fridge and a Fridgemate temperature controller. If you aren't in a position to buy a fridge yet, a good method of temp control which I haven't seen mentioned much on the forum recently, but which I used for nearly 2 years, is to get an old dead fridge - as small as will fit your FV as you don't want too much space (try Good Guys or other stores who do a "we remove your old fridge free of charge" offer). Then if you have enough freezer space in your kitchen fridge or freezer, produce a steady supply of frozen 2L PET bottles.
Even in QLD over two summers I did ales at 19 degrees swapping the bottles in once or twice a day, and I could even do lagers down to 14 degrees in the cooler months swapping the bottles twice a day. Of course as with your present system you can't go away for a week and the system eventually sux but it's a good stop gap.