Record Day For The Wrong Reasons

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sah

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Well I planned to get two brews in today and I was going to sparge quicker than I normally do to get it over with sooner than I normally would.

I started about 11 am and I am still going on the first, 15 mins left of the boil.

What went wrong? Stuck sparge, 14 kg worth of it. Disregarding planned batch sparge volumes, a triple decoction and much stirring later I was able to extract the 40 odd litres that I needed. The only good news was that I managed to hit the predicted efficiency.

I put it down to crushing too fine and having too thick a mash.

Anyway, we brew and learn.

regards,
Scott
 
That is a really long single brew day. :(

At least you got it all sorted in the end. What were you making?
 
14kg of grain for 40 litres. Looks like a big beer. Hope it turns out well
 
It's a helles bock, calculated for a 14L water dilution before fermenting.

14kg is definitely at capacity for my 45L esky mash tun.

Scott
 
What kind of manifold are you using at the bottom of your esky? I have a copper tube with holes cut in it and have never managed to have a stuck sparge yet. I have been able to make sticky wheat glue and it did not become stuck, although it was slow. I have even had to bail a few friends out that have been using the drink cooler setup with a false bottom because they were stuck.
 
I had a shocker yesterday, too. Two brews planned: a straight-forward APA, and a multi-rest decoction weizen. I was so organised. I had all my grain cracked and hops measured the night before.

It was my first day with a march pump. It was so nice not having to lift heavy pots of boiling water! I did notice, however, as I transferred to the kettle that I had a slight leak near the outlet (I have an elbow on the outlet, then a ball valve. The leak was between those two). It was only a drip every few seconds, so I wasn't too fussed, but figured I should fix it while the wort was heating. Spanner out, twist, snap, bugger: $50 down the drain.

Next problem: boil gravity was about 20% lower than I expected. I decided to recalculate the additions, and plough on with the lower gravity. Ran through my plate chiller the old-fashioned way (while cursing that I had been so stupid with the pump). All went ok, but my APA went into the fermenter at 1038 instead of 1045. No problem, I can just drink 20% more :).

Chiller water from the APA went straight to the HLT for the weizen. Doughed in, stepped, then decided to work out what went wrong with the APA gravity. Idiot: I used my extract efficiency instead of my brewhouse efficiency in BeerSmith. I've used the software a million times, and never got that wrong before :(.

I now have a weak APA and a weak Hefeweizen fermenting. Could be worse, I suppose..
 
What kind of manifold are you using at the bottom of your esky? I have a copper tube with holes cut in it and have never managed to have a stuck sparge yet. I have been able to make sticky wheat glue and it did not become stuck, although it was slow. I have even had to bail a few friends out that have been using the drink cooler setup with a false bottom because they were stuck.

I've got a slotted copper outfit too. 4 pipes running the length of the tun at optimal spacing according to the flow dynamics chapter in Palmer's How to Brew.

This is my first stuck mash. I've got to tell you though the crush was fine. I didn't mention the rice hulls I ended up adding either.

I'm really nervous about the next brew, I've already crushed (fine) about 6kg of wheat malt :(

Scott
 
I can now say I feel your pain. 6 of us decided to do a big batch on the weekend - first runnings for doppelbock, second for bock. We brought in an expert triple decoction lager fiend for his multiaward winning experience, a brewer to whom 12 hour brewdays are no stranger. He warned us to expect 10-12 hours, and we were OK with that, assorted SWMBO's blessed the leave passes.

So I prepared for it. Packed the gear in the car the night before, just the RO water to collect. Set the alarm for the arranged 5:30am start. I get to bed about 1:30, after spending 2.5 hours collecting the RO water; I've discovered too late that we only have a 12L reservoir for the RO under the sink, and it takes considerably longer to recharge than I was expecting.

The alarm goes off at 4:30, and I nearly cry. The thought of doing my first triple decoction is enough to get me out of bed. I fill my prepared coffee plunger with hot water and head off. Ridiculously for 5am on a Saturday morning I run into traffic (ie a jam) on the highway, and have to take several detours through back streets I am only aware of because some dude got shot there last week. I make it in one piece, and we start crushing. 52kg of grain. The NASA burners are fired up, the neighbours turn on lights in fear of something landing in the street and the HLTs are put into action. We mash in to the 160L tun by just after 6. The sun comes up over our glorious array of equipment some time later, and I am excited. We pull our first decoction - about 30L of thick mash, and stir in the 100L kettle. We are celebrating with a keg of Double Imperial Oatmeal Stout. For this, we have purchased an oar from the outdoor store, as the paddles just don't cut the mustard and we are really scared about scorching on the base of the kettle. We reach our rest temps and bring it to the boil. It's now 13:00.

We are all looking nervous. We've just stirred back the first of our three decoctions, and it's 1pm. I'm thinking to myself... maybe we started celebrating too early... But the reassuring sight of the resident expert nodding sagely makes me feel it's all OK. Pull off the second decoction, this time splitting it into 3 kettles. 15:30. Add back in... more beer... third decoction. I have to say, the mash is looking beautiful. It's darkening well, holding consistency and smells great - no scorching. 17:00 and we're done. Our resident expert reckons we can just head straight to sparge given the multi, multi hour rests this mash has had. We all agree.

Sparge into another 160L tun. At the blistering rate of about 0.2L/min. Someone does the maths and now we all want to cry. We persevere with the pump, throttling back, pumping water back through the slotted copper manifold; to no avail. We empty the mash into the kettles, pull out the manifold to check for blockages. There aren't any, it's just the superbly stirred and broken down thick mash. We thin as much as we can (ie limit of tun). About 20:00 we pull 150L of 1.110 wort off and start boiling the doppel. 10:30 and we've got 58L at 1.045. We boil.

Midnight. We're cleaning up, somewhat half-arsed. Everyone has been stone cold sober since about 8 cos they just want to get the hell home. Expert declares this a fantastic day, noting that in all 50 odd of his triple decoctions, using similar grain bills, he hadn't ever had a mash schedule quite like that. I arrive home at 1:30, unpack the fermenters into the fridge (20L doppel at 1.127, 20L bock at 1.055), empty the car and crash back into bed. 2:00am.

I swear, this had better be the best beer I've ever had. Next time I think about a big batch triple decoction, I'm hoping someone slaps me upside my head.
 
I can now say I feel your pain. 6 of us decided to do a big batch on the weekend - first runnings for doppelbock, second for bock. We brought in an expert triple decoction lager fiend for his multiaward winning experience, a brewer to whom 12 hour brewdays are no stranger. He warned us to expect 10-12 hours, and we were OK with that, assorted SWMBO's blessed the leave passes.

So I prepared for it. Packed the gear in the car the night before, just the RO water to collect. Set the alarm for the arranged 5:30am start. I get to bed about 1:30, after spending 2.5 hours collecting the RO water; I've discovered too late that we only have a 12L reservoir for the RO under the sink, and it takes considerably longer to recharge than I was expecting.

The alarm goes off at 4:30, and I nearly cry. The thought of doing my first triple decoction is enough to get me out of bed. I fill my prepared coffee plunger with hot water and head off. Ridiculously for 5am on a Saturday morning I run into traffic (ie a jam) on the highway, and have to take several detours through back streets I am only aware of because some dude got shot there last week. I make it in one piece, and we start crushing. 52kg of grain. The NASA burners are fired up, the neighbours turn on lights in fear of something landing in the street and the HLTs are put into action. We mash in to the 160L tun by just after 6. The sun comes up over our glorious array of equipment some time later, and I am excited. We pull our first decoction - about 30L of thick mash, and stir in the 100L kettle. We are celebrating with a keg of Double Imperial Oatmeal Stout. For this, we have purchased an oar from the outdoor store, as the paddles just don't cut the mustard and we are really scared about scorching on the base of the kettle. We reach our rest temps and bring it to the boil. It's now 13:00.

We are all looking nervous. We've just stirred back the first of our three decoctions, and it's 1pm. I'm thinking to myself... maybe we started celebrating too early... But the reassuring sight of the resident expert nodding sagely makes me feel it's all OK. Pull off the second decoction, this time splitting it into 3 kettles. 15:30. Add back in... more beer... third decoction. I have to say, the mash is looking beautiful. It's darkening well, holding consistency and smells great - no scorching. 17:00 and we're done. Our resident expert reckons we can just head straight to sparge given the multi, multi hour rests this mash has had. We all agree.

Sparge into another 160L tun. At the blistering rate of about 0.2L/min. Someone does the maths and now we all want to cry. We persevere with the pump, throttling back, pumping water back through the slotted copper manifold; to no avail. We empty the mash into the kettles, pull out the manifold to check for blockages. There aren't any, it's just the superbly stirred and broken down thick mash. We thin as much as we can (ie limit of tun). About 20:00 we pull 150L of 1.110 wort off and start boiling the doppel. 10:30 and we've got 58L at 1.045. We boil.

Midnight. We're cleaning up, somewhat half-arsed. Everyone has been stone cold sober since about 8 cos they just want to get the hell home. Expert declares this a fantastic day, noting that in all 50 odd of his triple decoctions, using similar grain bills, he hadn't ever had a mash schedule quite like that. I arrive home at 1:30, unpack the fermenters into the fridge (20L doppel at 1.127, 20L bock at 1.055), empty the car and crash back into bed. 2:00am.

I swear, this had better be the best beer I've ever had. Next time I think about a big batch triple decoction, I'm hoping someone slaps me upside my head.


And you wonder why we Aussies think all Americans are mad :lol:

expert triple decoction lager fiend
never trust experts.

Keep us informed - if they are fine brews you'll say it was worth it. And give us a yell if you are planning to do this again and we'll abuse you until the thought goes away !
 
That sounds like some day, ant. Haven't you read the recent reports that decoctions are a waste of time? :lol: :ph34r:

Anyway, let us know how it goes. Hopefully the beer'll be worth it. :chug:
 
And you wonder why we Aussies think all Americans are mad :lol:
The crazy thing is that Ant is an Aussie, just shows you can't trust American experts whether it be on brewing or weapons of mass destruction :eek:

Last Sundays brewday was pretty much an epic for me as well, all I will say is:
- Don't trust the cheapy $5 plug in timers to have your hot liquor tank turn on before you get up.
- Don't try and press 60l of red wine must at the same time as you are brewing because you need that same fermenter for the brew you are currently doing, hopefully it won't come out too winey!! (you've gotta love hot caustic)
- Don't try and rebuild/ modify your chilling system the same day you are brewing.
- Don't try and clean up the shed at the same time, so that you can do the one below.
- Don't try and practice your tig welding skills at the same time.
- Don't try and be nice to your fiance and drop her off to the place for a hens party and then drive another half hour later to pick her up in the middle of a brewday
- Don't try and entertain future in-laws at the same time

Oh well for an 0700 start on Sunday morning I was all done and dusted and reasonably cleaned up by 2:30AM Monday morning :excl:
End result 50L of Blonde ale/kolschy thing and 19L of Second runnings red wine

I have decided that a handheld immersion element is a "beautiful thing" in the brewhouse!!! it does the following:
- Supercharges your urn after it failed to turn on at the alloted time
- Doubles as a mash stirrer and heater , just don't melt the esky or fiance will be mad :ph34r:
- Triples as a kettle supercharger to speed up things and also helps a lot when the gas bottle is about to run out.
 
The crazy thing is that Ant is an Aussie, just shows you can't trust American experts whether it be on brewing or weapons of mass destruction :eek:

I thought he sounded too intelligent for an American ! :p and i knew he wasn't talking about a traffic jam (or a highway) in Texas Queensland .. though the shooting part sounded reasonable.
 
I can now say I feel your pain. 6 of us decided to do a big batch on the weekend - first runnings for doppelbock, second for bock. We brought in an expert triple decoction lager fiend for his multiaward winning experience, a brewer to whom 12 hour brewdays are no stranger. He warned us to expect 10-12 hours, and we were OK with that, assorted SWMBO's blessed the leave passes.

So I prepared for it. Packed the gear in the car the night before, just the RO water to collect. Set the alarm for the arranged 5:30am start. I get to bed about 1:30, after spending 2.5 hours collecting the RO water; I've discovered too late that we only have a 12L reservoir for the RO under the sink, and it takes considerably longer to recharge than I was expecting.

The alarm goes off at 4:30, and I nearly cry. The thought of doing my first triple decoction is enough to get me out of bed. I fill my prepared coffee plunger with hot water and head off. Ridiculously for 5am on a Saturday morning I run into traffic (ie a jam) on the highway, and have to take several detours through back streets I am only aware of because some dude got shot there last week. I make it in one piece, and we start crushing. 52kg of grain. The NASA burners are fired up, the neighbours turn on lights in fear of something landing in the street and the HLTs are put into action. We mash in to the 160L tun by just after 6. The sun comes up over our glorious array of equipment some time later, and I am excited. We pull our first decoction - about 30L of thick mash, and stir in the 100L kettle. We are celebrating with a keg of Double Imperial Oatmeal Stout. For this, we have purchased an oar from the outdoor store, as the paddles just don't cut the mustard and we are really scared about scorching on the base of the kettle. We reach our rest temps and bring it to the boil. It's now 13:00.

We are all looking nervous. We've just stirred back the first of our three decoctions, and it's 1pm. I'm thinking to myself... maybe we started celebrating too early... But the reassuring sight of the resident expert nodding sagely makes me feel it's all OK. Pull off the second decoction, this time splitting it into 3 kettles. 15:30. Add back in... more beer... third decoction. I have to say, the mash is looking beautiful. It's darkening well, holding consistency and smells great - no scorching. 17:00 and we're done. Our resident expert reckons we can just head straight to sparge given the multi, multi hour rests this mash has had. We all agree.

Sparge into another 160L tun. At the blistering rate of about 0.2L/min. Someone does the maths and now we all want to cry. We persevere with the pump, throttling back, pumping water back through the slotted copper manifold; to no avail. We empty the mash into the kettles, pull out the manifold to check for blockages. There aren't any, it's just the superbly stirred and broken down thick mash. We thin as much as we can (ie limit of tun). About 20:00 we pull 150L of 1.110 wort off and start boiling the doppel. 10:30 and we've got 58L at 1.045. We boil.

Midnight. We're cleaning up, somewhat half-arsed. Everyone has been stone cold sober since about 8 cos they just want to get the hell home. Expert declares this a fantastic day, noting that in all 50 odd of his triple decoctions, using similar grain bills, he hadn't ever had a mash schedule quite like that. I arrive home at 1:30, unpack the fermenters into the fridge (20L doppel at 1.127, 20L bock at 1.055), empty the car and crash back into bed. 2:00am.

I swear, this had better be the best beer I've ever had. Next time I think about a big batch triple decoction, I'm hoping someone slaps me upside my head.


I have 3 words for you

FRESH WORT KIT!


I hope it turns out great, drink it slowly!
Cheers
Gerard
 
Haven't you read the recent reports that decoctions are a waste of time?

Havent you "read" about botulism?

No everything written is worth reading, sometimes the proof is in the pudding.
 
No everything written is worth reading, sometimes the proof is in the pudding.

Too true. I'll be in around lunch time so you want to drop off a few bottles for me to check that decoctions are worth it. :D
 
I have 3 words for you

FRESH WORT KIT!


I hope it turns out great, drink it slowly!
Cheers
Gerard


:lol: but then the boppelbock would have only been 1.038 when watered down with the 5 liters

I do decoctions for my malty lagers and find the act of boiling the mash softens the husks and causes the sparge to run much slower than when i just do a simple infusion.

I also think that by boiling the mash you form hot break in the mash and this doesnt help runoff either.

I did a double decoction on sunday.... started at 6am and had the Maibock in the firmenter at 2pm....... how long did you boil those decoctions for?

cheers
 
:lol: but then the boppelbock would have only been 1.038 when watered down with the 5 liters

I do decoctions for my malty lagers and find the act of boiling the mash softens the husks and causes the sparge to run much slower than when i just do a simple infusion.

I also think that by boiling the mash you form hot break in the mash and this doesnt help runoff either.

I did a double decoction on sunday.... started at 6am and had the Maibock in the firmenter at 2pm....... how long did you boil those decoctions for?

cheers
"boppelbock"... is this the 2008 version of "rice gulls"?

Yeah, the mash was pretty chopped up after several hours of decoction, husks were very, very soft.

Clearly hot break in the mash tun - about an inch think, and siltier than silt. It acted like a clay barrier - sparge water sat on top, and really didn't want to do much about draining through - even when we intentionally channelled.

Only boiled each for about 30 minutes - the first decoction was the time killer. We were so worried about scorching the mash, but the heat diffusion on those big Robinox just didn't allow it. 5 hours I think it was all up... already I'm grainy on details - wrote down what I had to, actively trying to forget the rest!



Geez - I hope the recent mail on decoctions not being worth it are bollocks!!!
 
"boppelbock"... is this the 2008 version of "rice gulls"?

I think the Boppelbocks are the new replacement for the binge drinking teeny boppers :ph34r:
 
Ive contacted GErmany and had the name of it changed to boppelbock to allow for my poor typing skills and lack of want to go back over it all to corect mistakes. :p

I boil mine for 20 to 30 min as well, but only do 10 to 12 liters at a time and only takes 10 min to get simmering.

I think it worth it. I made a CAP a while back and double decoction mashed it. People who tried it loved it. It was crystal clear and the first comment people made was "Gee, its malty" It was 20% maize, 5% carapils and the rest Pilsner malt...... which shouldnt make an overly matlty beer. It was malty, so much so that the 1g/liter of finnishing hops were overshadowed by it., mashed at 52, decoct up to 64 or 65 and decoct up to 71 to mash out from memory. And the maltynedd was like it was a 1.080 beer made with Pils, not that toasty munich maltiness thats not the same as boiled up malt.

I bought a bag of Melanoiden malt ages ago and it wasnt the same either. I personaly didnt like the flavour it gave the beer compared to a decoction.

I think a lot of people try decoctions but due to misinformation, do it wrong and dont get a good result, a bit like a new brewer folowing the directions on the side of a kit and firmenting at 25 deg. They then declare home brew tastes like crap!

If it didnt make a difference, big german breweries wouldnt waste the time and money doing it would they!

I recon the beer will be a cracker..............hell, it it tastes like crap you will be able to use it as petrol in your car :lol:

cheers
 

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