Recirculating Single Vessel Breweries

[brad81]

Whilst waiting for the brown pump to arrive, I scouted arounde for a colander and came up with the following. My "base" to keep the bag off the bottom of the pot. 20min with a hammer and centre punch.

 

[black_labb]

Been playing around with the system and am very happy with it. Some comments and mods below. I'm very happy with the northern brown I've made using the system.


- I've been using grain crushed in my corona mill/shredder with minimal issue. I found that little bits of husk would find its way through the slots I've cut and a few would end up in the boil. I've cut a circle of swiss voile that roughly fits down the bottom to stop this. I think a better crush would improve this as would a more traditional false bottom style material. Swiss voile works just as well though.

- I can fit 6kg of grain in the big w 19L pot. max is probably about 6.2-6.5kg but the more you have in there the less head space you have meaning you need to watch for overflowing more carefully.

- Sparging by pouring water through the grain bed is very inefficient as it runs through the grain bed too quickly as the flow cannot be restricted. I think as a simply system full volume is ideal with maybe 1L of water from the kettle splashed around the top of the grain bed.

- I was able to do a successful sparge by sitting my malt pipe into a second big W pot and add the sparge water that way. The second pot restricts flow until you lift the malt pipe up letting it flow easily.

- Efficiency is a bit variable as I've been mucking around with sparging quantities/not sparging ect but full volume I'd suggest I'm getting 77-82% for most brews 4.5-5.5kg malt. My last brew was a dubbel with 6kg of malt and I got about 84-85% efficiency by doing a sparge using a borrowed 19L pot, this is the first attempt using this method.

- I think I'm going to stick to no sparge or minimal sparge for sub 1060 brews but when doing big beers I'll be doing a sparge as I don't have the option to just chuck an extra 200g of base malt in if the malt pipe is already full.

- I've been speeding up the period where the malt in the malt pipe gets saturated and up to temp with a kettle of boiling water. I found that there isn't much flow through the grain until it has come up to saccrification temps and without much flow the temp barely rises creating a viscious cycle. This was only noticed on an oatmeal stout where the oats made it quite sticky, but probably happens to a lesser extent with other beers. This also had the corona-shredded grain which would have made it worse. a bit of hot water can help get things up to temp and flowing correctly through the malt.

- I shortened the section of hose and located the pump by running an elbow from the outlet from the kettle to the pump instead of a section of hose. This makes it tidier looking and keeps the pump where it should be.

- I've ordered some glass hole saw bits so I can mod the lid to take the wort entry instead of the messy copper flex hoop at present.

- The PID seems to keep the temp around 1 degree higher than the set temp. I've just gone through the instructions and realised that I never ran the autotune setting which should fix this. I don't really mind though as I have it measuring the hottest part anywhere in the system.


Here is a photo so you can remember the system and because I just want to put more photos up.

 

[erkele]

Thats awesome!! I am loving it, more pictures please! this is like beer porn!!!

HAHA

 

[black_labb]

thanks, have a look through the first page for some more photos.

 

[fraser_john]

<snip>

- The PID seems to keep the temp around 1 degree higher than the set temp. I've just gone through the instructions and realised that I never ran the autotune setting which should fix this. I don't really mind though as I have it measuring the hottest part anywhere in the system.

<snip>

Did you also calibrate the PID offset with the probe you are using? There should be an offset setting which you can set, it might be that the PID is doing exactly the temp you want but the probe is 1c off in what it is reading.

 

[black_labb]

I've adjusted the offset to get the correct temp (default was about 1 degree off). The pid control uses the adjusted temp for the input to the control loop. The autotune lets the pid adjust it's logic parameters to suit the system.

 

[breakbeer]

I finally finished Phase 1 of my single vessel rig on Friday night and broke her in on Saturday. I put down a LC Bright Ale recipe that a mate has done a few times.

OG 1.050 FG 1.013. Colour 3.6 / 7.1 Bitterness. 36.2 IBU Alcohol 4.8%
All Grain 23L batch size. 60min Boil. 70% Efficiency

Grain Bill:
Pilsner Grain 1.7 63.64 % 3.50 Kg / 7.72 Lbs
Wheat Malt Grain 2.0 22.73 % 1.25 Kg / 2.76 Lbs
Carapils (Dextrine) Grain 1.0 5.45 % 0.30 Kg / 0.66 Lbs
Vienna Grain 3.0 5.45 % 0.30 Kg / 0.66 Lbs
Acidulated Malt Grain 1.8 2.73 % 0.15 Kg / 0.33 Lbs
Hop Additions:
B Saaz 6.8% 8.00 g / 0.28 oz Boil 40 mins
Cascade 7.8% 8.00 g / 0.28 oz Boil 40 mins
B Saaz 6.8% 10.00 g / 0.35 oz Boil 15 mins
Cascade 7.8% 10.00 g / 0.35 oz Boil 15 mins
B Saaz 6.8% 15.00 g / 0.53 oz Boil 0 mins
Cascade 7.8% 15.00 g / 0.53 oz Boil 0 mins
B Saaz 6.8% 13.00 g / 0.46 oz Dry Hop 0 mins
Cascade 7.8% 13.00 g / 0.46 oz Dry Hop 0 mins
Yeast: Safale US-05
Mash 60min
Initial Water: 34L
Strike Temp 68
Mash at 65


I missed the OG by quite a bit, ended up at 1.058 but I'm fairly happy with how it all went. Just have to figure out where I went wrong

Here's a pic of the new member of the family

 

[breakbeer]

I ended up having so much fun that I did back-to-back brew days. Even though the OG reading for both beers was above expected (1.058 instead of 1.050) they now both have a FG of 1.013, which is exactly what the recipe was aiming for. Stoked!

They've had 2 weeks in primary & I'll cc for one more week, if I can wait that long. Chomping at the bit to try my first AG beer!

 

[black_labb]

missed that the first time breakbeer, looks great. Sounds like the brewday went pretty smooth if you decided to go back to back on the first brew!

 

[breakbeer]

Brew day just got a whole lot easier on the forearms....



try not to laugh at my dodgy carpentry skills,

 

[Eggs]

where did you guys buy your pots from? theres so much choice out there its hard to decide what the best value is.

 

[bignath]

It's awesome to see so many single vessel breweries using the crab cooker insert on legs as the guard for the bag as well as to allow easy drainage, easy liftage, and easy sparging.

It's an idea that really works well.

Keep the builds coming!

 

[notung]

Brew day just got a whole lot easier on the forearms....

View attachment 57772

try not to laugh at my dodgy carpentry skills,

View attachment 57774

Your stand is awesome. Well done on that! Where'd you think of your brewery name?

 

[breakbeer]

Thanks man, just don't look too closely at it, not the straightest bit of carpentry you'll ever see.

Chicken is my nickname, seemed appropriate

 

[Fents]

Brew day just got a whole lot easier on the forearms....

View attachment 57772

try not to laugh at my dodgy carpentry skills,

View attachment 57774

bloody sensational! nice one gchick ;-) would love to come out for a brewday and some beats soon.

 

[breakbeer]

bloody sensational! nice one gchick ;-) would love to come out for a brewday and some beats soon.

Thanks man

For sure, lets hook up a brew day real soon, my brew room is next door to Sam's DJ room so beats are never too far away

I'm sure you could teach me a thing or seven too

 

[mattlea266]

Love all the ideas on this thread. Just wanted some experienced opinions on one I am throwing together. Should I go for an internal feed back into the mash with copper pipe (big nath style) or some sort of sprinkler style above the mash (fat ******* style). I thought as I am using a bag it would be better to keep the grain moving to extract more sugars and improve efficiency. Thinking a pipe from the lid to the bottom of my crab basket and then a tee at the bottom with some more copper and holes pointing up towards the lid to stir up the grain so it does not settle. Thanks for advice in advance.

 

[bignath]

Love all the ideas on this thread. Just wanted some experienced opinions on one I am throwing together. Should I go for an internal feed back into the mash with copper pipe (big nath style) or some sort of sprinkler style above the mash (fat ******* style). I thought as I am using a bag it would be better to keep the grain moving to extract more sugars and improve efficiency. Thinking a pipe from the lid to the bottom of my crab basket and then a tee at the bottom with some more copper and holes pointing up towards the lid to stir up the grain so it does not settle. Thanks for advice in advance.

Well, obviously i'd go with the "through the mash" idea. I certainly gave a lot of thought to the sprinkler/shower head style design, but on the first brew i blew my first element which was caused by the basket not allowing the wort to filter back through the compacting grain bed to allow the element to remain covered.
I fixed that by throttling back my brown pump, but i can't help but think that the sprinkler type setup runs the risk of this happening EASIER - not guaranteed, but i reckon it will make it easier for it to happen.

With the wort actively forcing it's way through the mash, i feel it has a better chance to get to the pump again.

I also thought of doing what your suggesting, by having the wort coming back up through the mash, but i ran out of copper pipe and couldn't be stuffed getting more. The other problem with that idea is that if the lid needs to be removed for a quick stir or a cheeky look at the mash, you run the risk of having the wort coming back at you and out the pot??

Also, be careful about how many holes you drill. More seems like a good idea, but will need more flow rate to make it work. If you have a bigger pump than the little brown one it won't be a problem. I had to redo my first wort return because i drilled the ass out of it, and the pump (i felt) struggled to utilise all of the holes effectively. Start with a smaller amount and drill more as you need them. Drill, check, drill, check etc....

 

[BPH87]

Well, obviously i'd go with the "through the mash" idea. I certainly gave a lot of thought to the sprinkler/shower head style design, but on the first brew i blew my first element which was caused by the basket not allowing the wort to filter back through the compacting grain bed to allow the element to remain covered.
I fixed that by throttling back my brown pump, but i can't help but think that the sprinkler type setup runs the risk of this happening EASIER - not guaranteed, but i reckon it will make it easier for it to happen.

With the wort actively forcing it's way through the mash, i feel it has a better chance to get to the pump again.

I also thought of doing what your suggesting, by having the wort coming back up through the mash, but i ran out of copper pipe and couldn't be stuffed getting more. The other problem with that idea is that if the lid needs to be removed for a quick stir or a cheeky look at the mash, you run the risk of having the wort coming back at you and out the pot??

Also, be careful about how many holes you drill. More seems like a good idea, but will need more flow rate to make it work. If you have a bigger pump than the little brown one it won't be a problem. I had to redo my first wort return because i drilled the ass out of it, and the pump (i felt) struggled to utilise all of the holes effectively. Start with a smaller amount and drill more as you need them. Drill, check, drill, check etc....

Hey Big Nath,

Have you got any pictures of your updated rig?

Cheers,

Ben

 

[bignath]

Nah mate, i haven't sorry. Will hopefully take some soon though. Just need work to slow down a little so i can concentrate on beer.

BUT, assuming you are familiar with my single vessel design, here are the changes i've made from the one in my signature.

1. Bigger pot. Went to a 60lt Aluminium pot, as it came with a crab cooker insert that was considerably bigger than the insert i was using.
Same principle, just bigger capacity.

2. Removed the dial thermo and T piece from the recirculation line. Just wasn't necessary.

3. With the bigger pot, i installed only 1 element in the side, down low, underneath the crab cooker insert, just like the other pot had, but in the side wall, not from underneath of vessel.

I now use 2 handheld immersion heaters for my boil duties, and the cheap ass kmart kettle element is only used to maintain mash temp and heat strike water.

4. No drain out from bottom of pot. Now it drains through a ball valve in the standard front location in the side wall of pot. This then feeds the pump, which pushes it back up the top and back in through the lid.

5. Better inline valves in the recirc path. One attaches directly to the pump outlet, and the other in the lid to control the return flow rate.

6. Have relocated the thermowell to the 12 O'clock position in the back side wall so it slides in underneath the crab cooker insert and reached the middle of the pots diameter - Cheers QldKev for the suggestion. It works so much better without it being in the lid.

These changes whilst small, have completely revolutionised my brewdays. Without anything mounted in the botttom of the pot surface, i don't have to use a milk crate as i can use my old SS brewtable instead which has power, hooks for storage, the stc mounted to it, the mill installed in it etc....heaps easier for brewday work flow.

So, if you compare this list of small mods to the original rig in the signature, you'll get a good idea of how my rig works now. The process is unchanged, but ease of use is much greater.
I really, really look forward to brewdays now.

Now all i need to work on with it is my efficiency. Been concentrating on consistency. Getting 69% repeated with my mill set at 1.4mm as i was having problems pulling the grain in at .9mm, but i've tested it at 1.1/1.2 and it pulls through well. I've been double crushing at 1.4, so i might pull the gap in a bit for the next brew, as i'm used to hitting mid 80's with my 3V rig.

any more questions, just ask!

Cheers,

Nath