RecipeDB - Little Creatures Bright Ale Clone

[bonj]

no worries.

 

[nabs478]

I brewed this recipe recently. It has conditioned for about 2 weeks since the end of fermentation and I have carbed it and tasted it. The smell and appearance are almost identical to LCBA. The taste is similar, but lacks a certain polish on the hop flavour that I often find missing in hoppy beers I make.

I have been treating my water after reading the following web page about water chem (http://melbournebrewers.org/wiki/TonyWheeler?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Key+Concepts+in+Water+Treatment.pdf). It reads the following about sulphate and hoppy beers...

Noonan: Gives beer a dry, fuller flavour, although the taste can be exceptionally sharp. With sodium andmagnesium, it is cathartic (purgative). Above 500ppm it is strongly bitter, and levels are generally kept atless than 150ppm unless the beer is very highly hopped. With intensely bitter beers, sulphate at 150-350ppm gives a cleaner, more piquant bitterness. Increasing amounts of sulphate give a cleaner hopflavour. Well hopped beers brewed with gypsiferous liquor commonly exhibit a finer, less coarsebitterness than is obtained with other liquor profiles.

Fix: High sulphate levels and dark beers are not a particularly good marriage. The effects are a dryingand astringent afterfinish.

Summary: Appropriate in pale, hoppy, bitter beers to give a cleaner hop flavour and bitterness, eg. IPA,Pale Ales, German Pilsener, or any pale beer where a drier crisper finish is being sought, perhaps aDortmunder or a Tripel. Sulphate would be inappropriate in a Bohemian Pilsener where a soft roundedbitterness is desirable. Sulphate is to be avoided altogether in dark beers

I adjusted mine to about 100ppm of sulphate as it isnt particularly bitter and I was worried about the bit about harsh bitterness. It is highly hopped though, so perhaps a level of 200-350ppm might be better?

Does anyone know if you can add salts to finished beer to achieve the goal?

 

[jayse]

snipped>

Does anyone know if you can add salts to finished beer to achieve the goal?

Very interesting question, personally I wouldn't go there but it is a good question indeed. If its just lacking a bit of 'polish' I would be more liken to just accept that as a nice beer and take on board the changes for next brew.
Your certainly in the perfect position for a before and after taste test for the benefit of us all if you go ahead and try it.

 

[Fourstar]

Does anyone know if you can add salts to finished beer to achieve the goal?

Hey Pip,

I dont know fi you should (i know you can add after the mash or in the boil) but if anything, i'd add Epsom Salts to up your sulfate as it will disolve. Gypsum will just cloud your beer up.

 

[reVoxAHB]

I have this recipe on tap at my place and over the weekend did a side-by-side with the LCBA at left, homebrew right:


Wasn't the best place to shoot a pic with orange wall, no uniform back and pils glasses, well whatever. I love this one cold too, which doesn't help present "bright" for photograph, due to chill haze.. Wasn't going to share this up at all, but the thread popped up tonight, and my feedback might be relevant.

I sampled the two, both cold and allowed to fully come to room temp over 40 minutes for full flavour profile. IMO, the malt bill is right where it needs to be. I pulled slightly more citrus (like a true US citrus) in aroma from commercial than my HB. Not sure if LC is still using US cas, but I'm betting yes. I used '07 NZ flower, partially plate chilled (but had a poor brew day, chiller clogged so this one was chilled in ferm overnight to pitchable, which could account for aroma loss).

Hop flavour - HB dominant by far. Much fresher and cleaner hop flavour, having been brewed maybe 5 weeks ago.. LC is still lovely, but not all there. IBU's or bitterness comparable between the two. Wouldn't change it.

Lacing is bang on from commercial to homebrewed example:


But finally, I didn't like the LCBA finish. The only way I can describe it, and what I kept coming back to, was a, "CUB-like" yeastie finish. I can't explain it, and none is present in my homebrewed example. Sip and sip again, kept coming up CUB in finish.

Used US-05 Saf in HB which took a good two weeks in keg to develop and clean-up, so to speak.

I'll brew this again with FWH, properly chilled and Wy1056 (over saf.. saf fine just took longer to clean up).

Overall impression, HB superior due CUB-like finish in commercial example. It's enough to put me off. I'd almost consider it a fault. It dawned on me, this beer is a real non-challenging beer in a number of ways. A real gateway beer for mega-swillers.. got to wondering if LC hasn't gone out of their way to replicate a CUB or swill like finish. I've discussed this beer with friends who were in love with it two years ago, but can't drink it today as it's considered, "changed".

Finally, I did not treat my water other than carbon filtering and a bit of calcium chloride to adj mash ph (inner-city melb table).

reVox

 

[chappo1970]

Version #3 Tony and drinking too well yet again!

 

[nabs478]

Your experience is very interesting reVox.

I plan to try adding salts to see, but I think I will wait for a few weeks to see if it cleans up a bit. I was going off the taste of the brew from a keg and tonight tested a botle, whiuch was only boittled 7 days ago. It came up much better, but still a long way off the mark. I have been surprised and surprised again by the polish a bottle conditioned beer develops in the second week. So I will wait til then and check it out.

 

[Tony]

Hey Pip,

I dont know fi you should (i know you can add after the mash or in the boil) but if anything, i'd add Epsom Salts to up your sulfate as it will disolve. Gypsum will just cloud your beer up.

Ok im going to step in on this one.........Sorry Fourstar.

Calcium salts are added to the mash to both adjust the mash pH and add calcium for the enzymes and yeast (later on) to feast on.

Epsom salts should be used very very carefully in beer. Especially pale beers as it can make the beer harsh. Too much magnesium can make the beers taste metalic...... i know from experience.

Gypsum will lower pH in a pale beer which is good and the sulphates will acentuate the beers bitterness. It WONT make your beer cloudy. I mix a tspoon into my HLT and stir it in and it disolves and leaves the water clear.

Calcium Chloride does the same as the gypsum only has no sulphate and the chloride adds a saltiness the the beer which accentuates the maltiness and flavours of the beer. It will lower the pH in pale beers and is the additive of choice for beers like this for me. It will disolve in water like sugar..... you cant see it.

Chalk or CaCO3 will raise the pH in dark beers like stout where all the dark roast malt drops down too low. It is not so soluable in water but hey........... its stout!

Out of these its mainly the calcium you want in the mash and epsum salts has none. I switch between the 3 calcium salts depending on the finnish i want in the beer. Sometimes i use a 50/50 mix for a ballance. Epsum salts are good if you really want to make the bitterness stick out in an IIPA ect. just use with caution. Best to get 0.1g scales and calculate out how much you need with this stuff.

A bit off topic but hopefully that answered some questions. If anyone sees any holes in what i said... please say

cheers

 

[Fourstar]

Gypsum will lower pH in a pale beer which is good and the sulphates will acentuate the beers bitterness. It WONT make your beer cloudy. I mix a tspoon into my HLT and stir it in and it disolves and leaves the water clear.

Maybe it has something todo with the pH of the water around here Tony because mine clouds. Not as bad as adding Calcium Carbonate but it goes from crystal clear to translucent. As for the MgSO4, i'd only advocate using 3-4g at most with a relatively mineral free water as a base. At what PPM have you noticed metallic flavours Tony? just for my records so i know my upper limits? 50+ppm?

Saying that ive never added more than 25PPM anyway. For my base water, if i add 1 rounded tsp of Epsom salts, it gets me to 25ppm Mg and 95 SO4. To date, i havnt noticed anything metallic.

Back to the actual topic, if push came to shove and i wanted the hops to 'pop' more, i'd simply brew the beer again, with the correct water additions in the mash.

Cheers and beers... time for another ESB! :chug:

 

[Tony]

I have usually used to when tryigng to burtonise water for IPA's...... like 500 PPM and and found the beers came out leaving that feeling in your mouth like you just licked aluminium. Hard to descrobe but metalic is the best i can do. Probably not so much taste but feel as well.

I never did it again and wont ever try to do it again.

In small amounts its fine. like i said........ best to use scales with it cause just guessing can be bad.

 

[BjornJ]

Tony,
there is another thread about an extract version of your recipe, would love some feedback about using that version if you have time:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry455278


thanks a lot,

Bjorn

 

[chappo1970]

Tony,
there is another thread about an extract version of your recipe, would love some feedback about using that version if you have time:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry455278


thanks a lot,

Bjorn

Bjorn I've done the extract version before it's very good. Not as good as the AG version IMO but very very close to what you would expect.

Chappo

 

[BjornJ]

Chappo,
thanks for the feedback, I want to try Tony's extract version of the LCBA as my first extract brew to try actually have to do more with the hops than just plonk them in some hot water for 5 minutes.

Will give it a go next I think,

thanks
Bjorn

 

[mr_tyreman]

Brew Day today!

Just need some of the more experienced to check my scaled down version of Tony's recipe.

Batch size: 22lt
Boil size: 26.22lt
Boil time: 60mins
Brewhouse efficiency: 75%

3.3kg Pale Ale
1.0kg Vienna
0.3kg Carapils
0.3kg Wheat malt

12gm NZ Cascade 45mins
12gm BSaaz 45mins
14gm NZ Cascade 20mins
14gm BSaaz 20mins
24gm NZ Cascade flame out
24gm BSaaz flame out

Yeast: S05

Mash single infusion
Mash in 60mins @ 66C 12.5lt at 72.5C
Mash out 15mins @ 72.0C 4.95lt at 89.5C

Est OG: 1049
Est FG: 1011
IBU: 26.7
EBC: 7.8

Anyone see any great big holes?

Hey Chappo, im going to brew this next weekend, just wondering if you had changed anything when you brewed, or is this pretty much spot on?

thanx

 

[chappo1970]

Hey Chappo, im going to brew this next weekend, just wondering if you had changed anything when you brewed, or is this pretty much spot on?

thanx

Tyres you will love this one. I know I did and so did all visitors to Chappo Manor while it was on tap here. Unfortunately it was too good and was consumed very quickly. I have a version #3 of Tony's on tap now which I have been carbing up over the weekend it should be good to go tonight hopefully :icon_drool2:
It's very close to LCBA but fresher in the hops aroma/flavour department. If you cna get your hands on flowers DO IT turns out pants wettingly good IMO.

Let us know how that goes for ya? Happy Brewing!

Cheers


Chappo

 

[mr_tyreman]

Thanx Chappo

 

[jeddog]

This will be my 4th brew of LCBA as i just love this drop. I was thinking of dry hopping to give me more of that flavour/aroma finish. I would add into primary fermenter after the first 4-5 days (as i don't secondary ferment) leave for 4-5 days then crash chill @2C for 3-4 days before kegging. I have 90g B-saaz and 90g Cascade flowers on there way from Craftbrewer and also some Galaxy pellets in my freezer needing to be used.
My question are:
Could i use the Galaxy pellets for the bittering hop at the start of the boil (60min) and dry hop with the B-Saaz and Cascade (i don't have enough B-Saaz and Cascade for dry hopping if i don't use the Galaxy)?
Or
The other way around, dry hop with the galaxy pellets?
Or
don't use the Galaxy?


Here what i have used in the past, I added the caramalt for a little more colour
40Lt Batch
5.25 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export Grain 62.50 %
1.50 kg Vienna Malt Grain 17.86 %
0.75 kg Caramalt Malt Grain 8.93 %
0.45 kg Carafoam Grain 5.36 %
0.45 kg Wheat Malt, Grain 5.36 %
21.30 gm Cascade [8.00 %] (75 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
21.30 gm B-Saaz [8.00 %] (75 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
32.00 gm B-Saaz [8.00 %] (20 min) Hops 8.7 IBU
32.00 gm Cascade [8.00 %] (20 min) Hops 8.7 IBU
38.00 gm Cascade [8.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
38.00 gm B-Saaz [8.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
1.00 items Immersion Chiller (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 items Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.00 tbsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
yeast US-56

 

[j1gsaw]

What Wyeast would be best suited to use in the LCBA?

 

[jeddog]

1056 American ale

 

[chappo1970]

1056 American ale

+1

or good old faithful S-05

Chappo