Recipe inspired by use of spread sheet - comments or suggestions welco

[gruntre69]

I'm going to have a go at using un-hopped LME

I like Tooheys old and lots of darker beers and want to get somewhere close to this.

Here is the recipe and output from the spread sheet:
0.75 Coopers LME Dark (half tin)
0.75 Coopers LME light
1.3 KG Light dry ME
0.2 KG Dark dry ME
0.1 Maltodextrine
0.25 Dextrose

Yeast S04 hydrated at 30c stir for 30 min slowly cooling to 20c

Hops
10 litter boil with 1.1 DME added for 1040 SG
Challenger 20 gm @ 25 min
East Kent Golding 20 Gm @ 30 min

Target pitching temp 20c
Target Ferment temp 18-20c
OG 1050
FG 1013
ABV 4.9 in keg
IBU 19.3
Colour 52.5
1 week in fermenter after FG before kegging then age in Keg at ambient temp for as long as it takes for my current keg to be drank.

What do you think? I'm planning to put this down in the next few days after comments and acquiring hops etc...

Questions: Using pellet hops, do you just throw them into the pot or use a fabric filter of some sort?
If using filter should that also go into the fermenter or just the liquid?

 

[Rocker1986]

I'd increase one of the hop additions to get more IBUs. 20 IBUs in a brew like that is gonna be sweet as ****. Hell, it's sweet in a light colored brew. You probably want it up more around 35-40 to balance it out more. The best way would be probably to increase the length of the boil and add the Challenger earlier.. have a play in the spreadsheet with it. You can just throw the hops in loose, then just pour the boiled wort through a sieve into the fermenter if you want to keep the hop matter mostly out of the fermenting brew.

 

[slcmorro]

This is just me, but I wouldn't bugger around with half tins.

Recipe looks good, but why not go the whole hog? Stronger and more flavourful beer if you use all at once, or you could dilute it to get more out of it if you choose.

 

[Northside Novice]

Buy a hop sock for boiling pellets , about $25
Well worth it and will last for many brews / all .
Craftbrewer sell them pm Ross , the owner .
Don't fuk around with stockings and the like , so easy to just throw in the pellets and them just take them all out when the boil is over , also you can use it to dry hop in the fv with the same ease as long as you sanitise it first x

 

[Rocker1986]

Personally, I wouldn't faff about with a hop sock for lowish volume extract brew boils, it's easier to just strain it through a sieve and it achieves the same outcome. Plus aerates it a bit too.

For full volume AG boils I do use a hop sock that I modified into a 'hop-spider' and I do like it for that situation, which I think they are better suited to.

But, each to their own.

 

[gruntre69]

I'd increase one of the hop additions to get more IBUs. 20 IBUs in a brew like that is gonna be sweet as ****. Hell, it's sweet in a light colored brew. You probably want it up more around 35-40 to balance it out more. The best way would be probably to increase the length of the boil and add the Challenger earlier.. have a play in the spreadsheet with it. You can just throw the hops in loose, then just pour the boiled wort through a sieve into the fermenter if you want to keep the hop matter mostly out of the fermenting brew.

Thanks for the input, I like a malty beer and figured this was going to be OK but not really understanding how the graph on the spreadsheet relates to reality is the problem. However if I move it up to the bettirness rate you suggest it blows it right off the chart for the "Australian Dark/Old Ale" beer style selected.

This is just me, but I wouldn't bugger around with half tins.

Recipe looks good, but why not go the whole hog? Stronger and more flavourful beer if you use all at once, or you could dilute it to get more out of it if you choose.

Reason is that I wanted to make this from one can of LME but the colour I was looking for suited a half can of dark and half of light so I just figured run with that. If it's a winner I'll make it again with the other 2 half cans... You have a good point though...

 

[Rocker1986]

Yeah, it's probably something you'd have to brew and see how it turns out. I like a malty beer too, I brewed a porter style that was nearly 50IBUs last year and it is quite malty and doesn't taste all that bitter at all because of all the malts in it. It's all relative. 50 IBU in a porter doesn't seem all that bitter, but if you put that much in a pale lager it'd probably be undrinkable. That's why I'm suspecting that 20IBU in a dark ale is gonna turn out pretty sweet and unbalanced. However, it's your brew and your tastes probably differ from mine and I don't stick to style guidelines when I brew either :lol:, so if you want to try it as written in your original post then go for it. At least if it does turn out too sweet, you can adjust it the next time.

 

[gruntre69]

I'll probably increase the boil time a bit and edge it up a bit.... You have me nervous now hahaha.... I'd hate it if it turns out crap!

 

[Rocker1986]

Lol. I wouldn't think it'd turn out crap. Maybe edge it up to 25 IBU on this batch and try 30 on the next to compare the two. Software is great but it can't tell you how you will perceive the taste of a particular recipe. The only way to really know is to brew it, bottle it and drink it.

I remember when I created my porter recipe, someone suggested to drop the 350g black patent malt I put into it, but it was already mashing. It turned out a bloody nice beer with a strong malty backbone and hints of chocolate flavours in it, and a smooth bitterness to balance it all out. I'll do the same recipe again at some point. It's not strictly to style, but unless you're entering comps it doesn't really matter as long as you enjoy the final product, that's what it's all about.

 

[RobboMC]

For mine it's not dark enough.

I'd go the whole can of dark LME, the whole can of light LME
and reduce the light dme down to suit your abv, maybe around 0.5 kg.
More dark LME will mean more sweetness to balance with the hop boil.
This is where the spreadsheet is useful, the graph on the right shows you where
the balance should lie for any particular starting gravity.

I guess you plan to use the dme to get the OG right for the boil,
just use most of the can of light LME in 10 litres, should be pretty close.

I'd also be adding 250g Medium Crystal Grain ( or dark ) steeped and strained.
Most extract only brewers feel the need for a bit of a specialty grain addition.

 

[gruntre69]

Yes I was concerned with the colour. I like it fairly dark and the spread sheet shows it out of range for the style on the dark side. It totally depends on the style parameters and the settings for the coppers extract tins being accurate, I have no idea about this though and exactly where the inputs have come from. The spread sheet is very well written though so I have a little faith...

I'll need some explaining on the crystal steeped and strained though is this mashing? Do I have to steep it at 66c as per all grain style brewing or is it a grain type that doesn't need mashing and just steeping in near boiling water..?

If I like a malty beer does should I keep it in the balance portion of the graph but on the malty edge or move it into the malty section? I'm tending to err with caution and run with the former...?

Also is it important to have the specific gravity correct for the boil if only doing hops boil? I figured the estimated and actual gravity were important only at the finished wort prior to yeast pitch? I guess the more ingredients included in the boil means more sanitation, is this the point of adding extract for the boil?

This is a great forum! thanks for the tips lads!

 

[markjd]

Buy a hop sock for boiling pellets , about $25

Or just buy a packet of paint strainers from Bunnings for under $10.

 

[gruntre69]

Yep, the cheap arse that I am, I'll be looking into the Bunnings option.... Thanks for the tip!
:kooi:

 

[Rocker1986]

Steeping specialty grains is similar to mashing, but temperature isn't critical like it is in a mash. Just heat some water (a litre or so) in a pot to about 70C, chuck in the grains, put the lid on and leave it for half an hour. Then strain this into your boil pot with however much malt extract and water to bring it to 10L, then do the hop boil.

I guess, there's malt driven beers and then there's way unbalanced over-sweet beers... you might have to do a bit of trial and error to find what suits your tastes the best.

The point of adding extract to the boil is to bring it to a certain gravity - usually around 1040. This is generally accepted as best practice for boiling hops. You get better utilization in plain water but it can be a harsh bitterness extracted. My take on it is that they have chosen this gravity as a good balance between utilization and avoiding harsh bitterness. There are probably other reasons for it as well. The higher the gravity is, the less utilization you get. Basically what that means is, the higher the utilization, the less hops you need to achieve a certain IBU level.

I hope that helps somewhat!

 

[gruntre69]

Recipe update,

OK after a bit more reading and valuable input from this thread I'm adjusting the recipe as follows:
Here is the recipe and output from the spread sheet:
1.5 Coopers LME Dark (whole tin)
1.5 Coopers LME light (whole tin)
0.35 Dextrose

Yeast S04 hydrated at 30c stir for 30 min slowly cooling to 20c

Malts and hops
0.25 Kg Medium crystal steeped 30 min @ 67c
0.1 Kg Chocolate steeped 30 min @ 67c
10 litter boil with 1 KG LME added for 1040 SG
Challenger 20 gm @ 25 min
East Kent Golding 20 Gm @ 30 min

Target pitching temp 20c
Target Ferment temp 18-20c
OG 1048
FG 1011
ABV 4.9 in keg
IBU 26.4
Colour spread sheet say 86.5 EBC but I'm not sure I believe this...
1 week in fermenter after FG before kegging then age in Keg at ambient temp for as long as it takes for my current keg to be drank.

I've decided to start playing with grain and have upped the hops bitterness to counter the sweet grains. Hopefully this will be a winner. Does anybody think I should add a bit of corn starch to improve head retention?

 

[gruntre69]

Brew is in the fermenter...

The spreadsheet suggests to boil 10 litres. I did 6 litres because I was limited by pot size. Everything went really well until I got to pitching the yeast.

I had anticipated that I would need cold water to top up my wort due to the very hot 6 litres after the boil. I had a 20L cube in my beer frifdge for the day but it had bumped the door open at some point and it was only about 10c when I started.

I had decided to rehyrate the yeast and knew there is a limit of 30 minutes before hydrated yeast should ideally be pitched.

When I made up the wort and airated it best as possible I ended up with 28c and didn't want to pitch the SA04 in at that temp.

I was reluctant to add ice and risk contamination so I decided to sit the fermenter in an ice bath in the laundry tub. It took ages to get the temp down and I decided to try and re-airate the wort with the stirring spoon and pitch.

It ended up being an hour after yeast hydration before pitching and 24c temp.

This morning I have a thin Crousen and 22c and hopefully all is well.

Notes: The spreadsheet seems to be very accurate on colour and this is indeed a very dark brew.
Predicted OG 1048
Achieved actual 1045
I think next time is will be way smarted to try and cool the much smaller boil pot in a smaller ice bath with better concentration of ice.

 

[mosto]

Having something go wrong is pretty much part and parcel of a brew day, or at least it is for me anyway . Sounds like it is fermenting away nicely and sounds like a very nice brew.

 

[gruntre69]

Yep, good activity in the fermenter now.... My biggest problem is that 19L kegs don't last long enough.... definately need to get another one down as soon as I keg this and get more kegs.....

 

[Rocker1986]

Which spreadsheet are you using? If it's the one by IanH on here, you can manually adjust the boil volume to suit your equipment. Anyway, good luck with the brew and make sure you let us know how it turns out!

 

[gruntre69]

Yes mate, it is Ian's awesome one. I did ajust the boil volume down to 6 litres which is what I used so all good. I've modified the brew day sheet too, to be more specific with a more step by step process and included to cool the boil pot before making up the fermenter. I'll brobably do a few more this way before moving to all grain. Looking at BIAB options for simplicity but I'm attending a traditional All grain on the weekend for a look as well...