recipe critique/thoughts Marzen

[droid]

Title: Life on Marzen

Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 5.82%


4 kg - Vienna (44.4%)
4 kg - Munich Dark (44.4%)
1 kg - Pilsner (11.1%)

HOPS:
30 g - mt hood Boil for 60 min, IBU: 9.08
30 g - mt hood Boil for 45 min, IBU: 8.33
20 g - Saaz, Boil for 30 min, IBU: 3.54
20 g - Saaz, Boil for 15 min, IBU: 2.28


strike/rest 52 C 20 min
Decoction 64 C 40 min
Decoction 72 C 40 min
Sparge 78 C 20 min


Wyeast - Bavarian Lager 2206 Starter

Fermentation Temp: 8 C

Rainwater +

things i'm not sure about are:
the grains are Gladfield - they don't offer a dark or light Munich it's just Munich
should i have some Tettnanger in there early and alter the later hops? i don't have Tett' on hand but have to build a starter so could get it if really important
i want to bring the malty-ness out by doing a double decoction but unsure about times
was going to gets me some rainwater but have never brewed with it, i did get some salts

appreciate any tips for my first marzen!

 

[droid]

anybody?

 

[Black n Tan]

I think you should ditch the vienna and replace with pilsner malt. The munich and double decoction should give enough melanoidens. I would add some medium crystal to 4-5% as I think it works well in an oktoberfest and helps differentiate from a Vienna. Not sure about the Mt Hood, never used it, but I typically use magnum for bittering in european styles.

 

[droid]

thanks Grant, i do have crystal, pilsner malt and magnum - happy days! would you split it <edit ~malt 50/50 still? minus the 5% crystal so 47.5% 47.5% 5%

what do you think about the mashing times?

 

[Black n Tan]

I would keep the munich to about 40%, 55% pils, 5% crystal. I would follow a mash schedule that leaves a little more body, so for me that would be 57C/5', 63C/10', 68C/50', 72C/20' and then mash out. Triple decoction? You may be able to just skip the 63C and up the time at 68C if that is getting to much.

 

[droid]

that's awesome stuff Grant and just what i needed mate cheers!

 

[droid]

Grant do you think i need to up the IBU if i go for more body and considering the 5% crystal as well? I'm around 24ibu's which is the high end of the ibu range for a marzen?? i like the sound of low bittering with a rich malty profile without the cloying/sweetness

 

[Black n Tan]

I'd push it towards 28IBU.

 

[droid]

yep, righto I'll let that info absorb
Mate I still have a bottle of hefe to get to ya but I must say unless I pimp the bejeesus out of the next keg with something, it's a bit meh
I don't think I mashed it at the high end for long enough

 

[Black n Tan]

You're always welcome to come over when I am brewing if that would help. I have been changing a few things when making my hefe and most aren't for the better (the combination of under pitching and under oxygenation is not for the good). Tricky little feckers.

 

[droid]

thans mate there may well be a pm for you coming in to summer bout a brew day

 

[themonkeysback]

Title: Life on Marzen

Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 5.82%


4 kg - Vienna (44.4%)
4 kg - Munich Dark (44.4%)
1 kg - Pilsner (11.1%)

HOPS:
30 g - mt hood Boil for 60 min, IBU: 9.08
30 g - mt hood Boil for 45 min, IBU: 8.33
20 g - Saaz, Boil for 30 min, IBU: 3.54
20 g - Saaz, Boil for 15 min, IBU: 2.28


strike/rest 52 C 20 min
Decoction 64 C 40 min
Decoction 72 C 40 min
Sparge 78 C 20 min


Wyeast - Bavarian Lager 2206 Starter

Fermentation Temp: 8 C

Rainwater +

things i'm not sure about are:
the grains are Gladfield - they don't offer a dark or light Munich it's just Munich
should i have some Tettnanger in there early and alter the later hops? i don't have Tett' on hand but have to build a starter so could get it if really important
i want to bring the malty-ness out by doing a double decoction but unsure about times
was going to gets me some rainwater but have never brewed with it, i did get some salts

appreciate any tips for my first marzen!

I have had a couple of cracks at a Marzen with 50% Pilsner and 50% Munich II (I think I may have nicked this grain bill from AHB member the drunk arab).
I kind of like the idea of using german hops given the origin of the style. Generally I have used Hallertau Mittelfruh.
Most recent version was hal mitt @ 30 mins for 20 IBU and at whirlpool for another 10IBU (using no chill settings on brewmate for this one).
I have always used Wy2206 and like this yeast for this style. Generally I ferment it low (8-10 degrees) with a large starter, and do a diacetyl rest as recommended by wyeast. Interestingly enough, the version of this I did which my mates loved and smashed the most had some diacetyl which I though was shit but they loved!
I have never bothered with a decoction with this grain bill and it is plenty malty enough with the pils/munich II.
I know at 30IBUs it is pushing things for the style but it sits well with this malt and yeast combo.

I think if you are considering a decoction then gladfield munich would be fine, otherwise I would seek Munich II.
I agree with black n tan's mash schedule, but personally would avoid crystal.

Adam.

 

[themonkeysback]

Oh, and I have done a couple of versions with only 60 or 30 min hop additions but definitely prefer some late hops, particularly with no chill.

 

[droid]

thanks mate, it's all going in and i'll let it rattle around for a few days and see what comes of it

cheers for replying :beer:

 

[roastinrich]

and don't forget the CaCl2.

 

[Reman]

I'd push it towards 28IBU.

Agree with this, I under bittered mine and it just ended up too sweet without enough balance.

For mashing I would go on the slightly dry side and if you are using crystal that should take care of any body issues.

 

[Black n Tan]

Grant do you think i need to up the IBU if i go for more body and considering the 5% crystal as well? I'm around 24ibu's which is the high end of the ibu range for a marzen?? i like the sound of low bittering with a rich malty profile without the cloying/sweetness

Jonny after some more thought I think the main rest should be at 67C rather than 68C. 68C seems to work on my system but the schedule I originally proposed is what we used at bandicoot and on their system left a little more body than I intended. So it may be a safer bet to go with 67C.

 

[droid]

cheers Grant, the edges are blurred when it comes to my mash system temps and i think i'll have to make a judgement call on the temp based around the crystal ~ if i go with 5% crystal i will try my best to hit 67. in reality the numbers will probably float between 66 and 68, however if i drop the crystal i would be thinking of staying higher yes? that part of the recipe/malt bill is still rattling around...there's no guarantee on when it'll pop out - hehe

thanks mate, just waiting on my new heated stir-plate, which is gonna be soo cool, i can't wait to get this part of the process nailed down

and i'm really looking forward to a malt driven lager - good times!

 

[technobabble66]

Title: Life on Marzen

Original Gravity: 1.057
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 5.82%


4 kg - Vienna (44.4%)
4 kg - Munich Dark (44.4%)
1 kg - Pilsner (11.1%)

HOPS:
30 g - mt hood Boil for 60 min, IBU: 9.08
30 g - mt hood Boil for 45 min, IBU: 8.33
20 g - Saaz, Boil for 30 min, IBU: 3.54
20 g - Saaz, Boil for 15 min, IBU: 2.28


strike/rest 52 C 20 min
Decoction 64 C 40 min
Decoction 72 C 40 min
Sparge 78 C 20 min


Wyeast - Bavarian Lager 2206 Starter

Hey droid, how did this turn out?
What grist did you end up going with; and was it nice & super-malty, or just a more-malty lager?

I'm starting a series of S-189 lagers soon and are looking at trying a Marzen as the 3rd batch. The other 2 will be a slightly more malty version of Boags Premium (hopefully) as the "starter" then a Dark/Schwartz version of a Kirin clone (hopefully).
So i'm keen to do a super malty lager at ~5.5% alc, which apparently is a Marzen.
One of the decisions is what to pair ~60% Munich with: 30% of either Vienna or Pilsner? Inclined to use Vienna after (mountains) of reading and recipe googling. Hence the query as to which you went with & how did it turn out?