Priming Bottles

[bekhenry]

How do you measure different amounts of sugar when bottling? The recipe im using calls for 4g in each bottle - i usually use carbonation drops - how many grams in each one?
Thanks in advance
Bek

 

[Adamt]

Just use carbonation drops as usual unless you are specifically after a different carbonation level to normal.

Best way to get accurate "per bottle" priming rates is bulk priming. This is more advanced than individually priming bottles, it is covered in detail in the Wiki (i'm fairly sure) and in other threads, do a search for "bulk priming".

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

The vast majority of my beer has been bottle primed. I use a sugar measure I bought from BigW, or can be had from any half-decent HBS (and several that are crap) for a dollar or so. If you're after the sort of priming that falls within the 'normal' range, this is plenty good enough until you are ready to explore bulk priming, force carbonation, world domination, etc...

 

[bekhenry]

So what is a normal level of carbonation?

 

[staggalee]

How do you measure different amounts of sugar when bottling? The recipe im using calls for 4g in each bottle - i usually use carbonation drops - how many grams in each one?
Thanks in advance
Bek

A Coopers carbonation drop weighs 3 grams on my digital scales if that helps you.

 

[bekhenry]

Ok thanks - so instead of using 2 carbonation drop per 750mls i'll just use 1. Its for a stout so it wont matter if it is a bit flat.
Thanks everybody!
Bek

 

[rich_lamb]

If you're using carbonation drops it's all pretty simple and there's really no measuring to do. I used to prime each bottle with dextrose and had all sorts of disappointments with flat beer and long conditioning times.
I have since moved on to bulk priming (as suggested earlier) - I'd highly recommend this, as it gives more consistent results. This actually has more to do with the yeast than the sugar, as with bulk priming you can evenly mix in a bit of the yeast while you are racking.
I found priming is also (adversely) affected by doing secondary fermentations, or longer fermentations, as this also reduces the amount of active yeast in the bottles.

hope that's of some use,
cheers

 

[staggalee]

Ok thanks - so instead of using 2 carbonation drop per 750mls i'll just use 1. Its for a stout so it wont matter if it is a bit flat.
Thanks everybody!
Bek

Yes, stouts won`t need as much carbing as other beers, but unless your fg was 1016 or higher, you might be pushing it a bit with only 3g. per 750 ml.

stagga.

 

[staggalee]

I found priming is also (adversely) affected by doing secondary fermentations, or longer fermentations, as this also reduces the amount of active yeast in the bottles.

hope that's of some use,
cheers

You might get a few arguments on that one

stagga.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

You might get a few arguments on that one

stagga.

I believe that as long as you have at least one viable yeast cell in each bottle and each bottle is stored in an environment conducive to yeast happiness, you will eventually get all convertible sugars converted to alcohol.

I've recently taken to filtering my beer through a 1micron filter on its way into the bottles. Some yeast gets through, but not much, but after a bit longer time than sans-filter, each bottle gets carbed up just as good as when I had cloudier beer.

No argument from me - just clear, carbed beer! :icon_cheers:

 

[bekhenry]

Yes, stouts won`t need as much carbing as other beers, but unless your fg was 1016 or higher, you might be pushing it a bit with only 3g. per 750 ml.

stagga.

FG is 1024 - so how would that be with 1 carb drop?

Bek

 

[Simon W]

As long as that 1024 reading has been stable for a few days, the one carb drop should be fine.
If you're not going to drink the entire batch in the next month, the yeast will slowly chomp through the heavier sugars and will drop that 1024 a couple more points in the bottle and add a little more carbonation.

 

[staggalee]

As long as that 1024 reading has been stable for a few days, the one carb drop should be fine.
If you're not going to drink the entire batch in the next month, the yeast will slowly chomp through the heavier sugars and will drop that 1024 a couple more points in the bottle and add a little more carbonation.

Agree with that-and bek, what was in your stout that finished at 1024?

stagga.

 

[rich_lamb]

Just to clarify - yes you will "eventually" carbonate a bottled beer with few yeast cells in it. I prefer to have a (normal) beer carbonating in 2-4 weeks and not wait 6 months

I found that by reducing the yeast available at priming, by doing secondarys or longer-than-necessary primarys, I had lots of trouble carbonating beers predictably or in a reasonable time. They'd always carbonate eventually, sometimes after 6 months when I was just about to chuck 'em.

More yeast is better (generally) - same as with the main fermentation. The fermented beer is pretty tough for yeast too, as there is lots of CO2 and alcohol, so it's an uphill battle for those yeasties. Some people will add fresh yeast at bottling for this reason.

I think the concern here was cloudiness anyway, and yeast don't repesent the main problem. They will settle out nicely. Cloudiness in beer comes from a number or sources, all of which can be addressed without using a secondary fermentaion. As I said, leave the bottles for a while and they will clarify quite a bit.

cheers,

Lamb

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Now that everybody else has had a go at trying to confuse this topic, I though I would have a go

First off you need to understand exactly what the "priming" is trying to achieve.

Adding more fermentables after all activity is finished into the bottles is just extending the fermentation in a controlled manner to provide a "known" amount of CO2 into the bottles.

So the actual goal of "priming" is to control the amount of CO2 being produced as part of another fermentation cycle.

As with any fermentation cycle we need to have:
- fermentables
- yeast
- correct temperature

Theses are the parts you need to concentrate on to provide the desired carbonation level. Note the correct amount of fermentables (usually sugar) is what will determine how highly carbonated the resulting beer is.

The fermentables can be anything you want:
- sugar,
- DME,
- fresh wort,
basically anything you can ferment (within the confines of a sealed bottle). I have tried all of the above and they all work.

The yeast as previously mentioned, makes a large determination in how long the carbonation period is going to take. The more yeast you drop out by doing extended carbonations, filtering, fining, cold conditioning etc, and the less healthy the remaining yeast is, the longer it is going to take to carbonate.

Note where I differ from Lamb is that I will focus on getting the beer in the state I want it, and still doing longer fermentation, cold conditioning etc, knowing full well its going to take longer to carbonate.

You can add yeast, and it is common practice for commercial breweries that bottle condition to add a specific "conditioning" yeast for this purpose. Usually one the flocculates out well, and ferments quickly and cleanly at room temperature ( ie a clean lager yeast ).

I sometimes stir back in a small amount of the yeast that has settled on the bottom if I am concerned about the amount left in the beer. This is only really practical if you are bulk priming.

The third part of the equation is temperature. Basically the warmer it is, the quicker it is going to happen. If I want to speed up carbonation (especially during winter) I will create a temp controlled environment that stays about 23C (just a heating device in an non working fridge), most beers will carbonate in this environment within 2-4weeks.

Alright so that is the easy part done, the mechanics of carbonating your beer, now onto the tricker part, the level of carbonation.

Again this mostly comes down to the amount of fermentables ( ie sugar, carbonation drops etc ) that is added when bottling. Now here the temperature that the beer has been fermenting at also comes into play, as different amounts of CO2 are dissolved into solution at different temperatures.

You may have noticed that a lager after fermentation seems to have quite a bit of carbonation, compared to an ale, and this is because the CO2 dissolves more readily at lower temperatures. This means you need less sugar for a lager then you need for an ale to achieve the same level of carbonation.

Note if you are using the predefined measuring spoons or carbonation drops there is not much you can do about this. It can really only be addressed by bulk priming. Again if you don't really care either way, at least you know why your lagers are generally higher carbonated then the ales.

And one final note is the different yeasts, with different attenuation properties will provide slightly different results even if all the other factors are taken into consideration.

Basically dialing an exact level of carbonation is almost impossible to achieve with bottle conditioning,
a ballpark level is achievable,
if you just stick to the carbonation drops etc, it will get there and is usually moderate to high level of carbonation.

I have also attached a spreadsheet to help calculate the amount of sugar to add for bulk priming that takes into account the beers temperature when bottled (inherent CO2 dissolved).

So there you go, quite painless really

View attachment Priming_Sugar_Calculator.xls

 

[Murcluf]

I have a question regarding priming and bottle sizes and types, and believe there are a number of factors that may come into play when priming?. I'm wondered if anyone else has come across the same?
When I first started brewing I used the coopers 740ml pet and carb drops then moved to bulk priming with the same weight in dextrose (1 1/4 cups to 21lts) and never had an issue with over carbing. Tried 250ml swing tops bulk primed at the same rate as pets, popped like champagne but didn't over carb. Then moved to glass 375ml crown seals and twists didn't notice any issuses with my first 2 brews but then started to produce bottle bombs and foam fountains since then I have been reducing the amount of dextrose I have been using as I go and am using considerably less but still haven't hit perfect amount (I am using the priming calculator as mentioned above). I have also noticed different beer styles have reacted differntly also I gather that may have alot to do with the different yeasts I have used.

So I'm guessing that PET and Swing Tops both have the option of allow any excessive carbination to leech out either via the caps or the plastic bottle itself considering the amount of dextrose I was orginally using.
I also believe the size of the bottles is factor as I have reduced the amount of priming dextrose and still get very strong results. I am now down to 2/3 the suggested priming level for dextrose and looks like I could get down to half the amount before perfecting. I suppose my main fear is under carbing because I've done it once (by forgeting to carb at all) and I hate flat beer

Cheers

 

[sah]

Now that everybody else has had a go at trying to confuse this topic, I though I would have a go

That's an excellent post Chris. Thanks for the spreadsheet. Could I suggest making this post the wiki entry on priming? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=27

regards,
Scott

 

[staggalee]

The original query was about priming- cloudiness has nothing to do with what he asked in the first place.

stagga.

 

[rich_lamb]

Yeah, you're right - got my posts confused :lol: