Pressure Fermenting in CUB Ball lock keg

[DarrenTheDrunk]

Hello Fellow Brewers. I was given 2 x 50 liter Kegs and was thinking of having a crack at pressure fermenting (see photo). Can I ask the following questions:
1. Can I use these kegs and if so, what sort of top can I purchase
2. Can anyone send me some links or give some advise on pressure fermenting

I really like the idea of the beer fermenting and "maturing" much quicker and I also like the idea of pressure transferring the beer to the Cornelius keg so no air can spoil the beer.
Any input would certainly be appreciated.

CBBE

 

[Grmblz]

Hello Fellow Brewers. I was given 2 x 50 liter Kegs and was thinking of having a crack at pressure fermenting (see photo). Can I ask the following questions:
1. Can I use these kegs and if so, what sort of top can I purchase
2. Can anyone send me some links or give some advise on pressure fermenting

One of these to open it https://www.keg-king.com.au/catalog/product/view/id/65/s/d-type-s-type-keg-opening-tool/category/29/
One of these to use it https://www.keg-king.com.au/mf-d-keg-coupler-5-8-bsp-ergo-handle-c-w-kinglock.html

Can you use it? Yes.
Should you use it? No.
For a variety of reasons, not least of which is if you are asking these questions then you don't have the knowledge to use this thing safely.
No offence intended mate but these things have killed people.

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

No offence taken but you have no idea of my past mate. 40 years ago, I can not remember how many kegs I "plunged" in my job when the plunge was the only option. I can assure you that this device is significantly safer now I can see how it connects. At a live music venue, I would be plunging up to 8 kegs at the start of the night (piggy bank) then depending on the band playing, would need to plunge anything up to another 6. I do not know if you ever did this with the old system but it was clearly far less safe than these newer systems

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

point 2 of my question was about pressure fermenting and this question remains. I am not sure how I could clean the keg with that "ball" in the way. Clearly I would need to mix the brew in another device and pressure transfer it into this keg as one certainly could not add ingredients through that hole.

 

[stick3]

i used 2 corny kegs ( hot water to rinse before and after sanitiser) to clean the 50ltr kegs i have the A type or tooheys coupler so from liquid out on the corny to gas inlet on the coupler and liquid out through the tap or if you a spare black disconnect

or transfer some fluids from cornys one at a time to 50ltr and connect co2 directly to the coupler and out through the liquid either way its sealed

and iam changing over in few weeks to pressure fermenter 60ltr snub nose and this is how i think it will work after a lot of research online

i will be using my old pail fermenters to mix two brews and drain it through the clear hose when its cooled into pf filled with say 30lts of water than topping it upto 46-48 ltrs that reminds me next thing i need to purchase is the spunding valve

after 17 years brewing 4 fermenters racking this going to be a new adventure

 

[Meddo]

Remove the spear with one of the tools linked above, and (try to) find a 2" tri clamp approximation of the 4" tri clamp kegmenter lids as sold by one or both of the Keg-somethings. "Tri clamp yeast brink" as a Google search term might bring up something useful, you're looking for a 2" tri clamp cap with two ball lock posts and a prv on the cap fitting. I'm not actually sure that such a fitting exists, but it might - if not you could use one of the 4" kegmenter lids onto at 4" to 2" tri clamp reducer (starting to get a bit hacky here). 2" tri clamp fittings can be connected to the top of those kegs once the spear is removed.

Just to correct your terminology, that is a commercial-style keg with a D-type spear. "Ball lock" posts are completely different, usually used on homebrew / soda / Cornelius style kegs. Albeit the D-type spear valve does have a ball in it, that's not referenced in the name of the design.

Technically you could find a way to make it work without removing the spear, but it would genuinely be more trouble than it was worth - the money you'd have to spend on a pump to clean the thing plus all the required fittings would probably buy you three brand new kegmenters designed to do the job you want.

 

[Grmblz]

No offence taken but you have no idea of my past mate. 40 years ago, I can not remember how many kegs I "plunged" in my job when the plunge was the only option. I can assure you that this device is significantly safer now I can see how it connects. At a live music venue, I would be plunging up to 8 kegs at the start of the night (piggy bank) then depending on the band playing, would need to plunge anything up to another 6. I do not know if you ever did this with the old system but it was clearly far less safe than these newer systems

Ahhh, ok, sorry mate I was just concerned for your safety, seeing as you've "plunged" you'll be well aware of the dangers, watching someone leaning over a keg still gives me the willies.
Right, what meddo is referring to is something along the lines of : remove the spear (release pressure first) no need to buy the tool because you are going to chuck the spear, just use a hammer and chisel to undo it.
Buy Ball Lock Tapping Head to 2inch Tri-Clover (Commercial Keg Adaptor)
You now have a 50L cornie proceed as normal. (all your normal homebrew gear like spunding valve will fit)
Cleaning will be a simple matter with Bucket Blaster Keg and Fermenter Washer Kit Keg King have a similar product, might want to check which pump is the most powerful or build your own from ebay stuff.

And seeing as it's Sunday, some light reading for you.
https://byo.com/article/pressure-capturing-co2-fermentation/https://www.ikegger.com/blogs/ikeggerworld/under-pressurehttps://community.diybeer.com/topic/14421-fermenting-under-pressure/http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/27/un...gher-psi-fermentations-exbeeriment-results-2/Cheers G

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

i used 2 corny kegs ( hot water to rinse before and after sanitiser) to clean the 50ltr kegs i have the A type or tooheys coupler so from liquid out on the corny to gas inlet on the coupler and liquid out through the tap or if you a spare black disconnect

or transfer some fluids from cornys one at a time to 50ltr and connect co2 directly to the coupler and out through the liquid either way its sealed

and iam changing over in few weeks to pressure fermenter 60ltr snub nose and this is how i think it will work after a lot of research online

i will be using my old pail fermenters to mix two brews and drain it through the clear hose when its cooled into pf filled with say 30lts of water than topping it upto 46-48 ltrs that reminds me next thing i need to purchase is the spunding valve

after 17 years brewing 4 fermenters racking this going to be a new adventure

Thanks. I think I follow what you are saying. Good luck with the new venture mate. I saw the snub nose fermenters but now having 2 keggeraters, 14 cornie kegs 5 plastic fermenters and not a heap of coin, I really want to utilise what I can get with minimal coin if I can. The bloke who owns the pub said he has 2 more or these kegs that he owns (not owned by CUB) that I can have if I want. Cheers

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

Ahhh, ok, sorry mate I was just concerned for your safety, seeing as you've "plunged" you'll be well aware of the dangers, watching someone leaning over a keg still gives me the willies.
Right, what meddo is referring to is something along the lines of : remove the spear (release pressure first) no need to buy the tool because you are going to chuck the spear, just use a hammer and chisel to undo it.
Buy Ball Lock Tapping Head to 2inch Tri-Clover (Commercial Keg Adaptor)
You now have a 50L cornie proceed as normal. (all your normal homebrew gear like spunding valve will fit)
Cleaning will be a simple matter with Bucket Blaster Keg and Fermenter Washer Kit Keg King have a similar product, might want to check which pump is the most powerful or build your own from ebay stuff.

And seeing as it's Sunday, some light reading for you.
https://byo.com/article/pressure-capturing-co2-fermentation/https://www.ikegger.com/blogs/ikeggerworld/under-pressurehttps://community.diybeer.com/topic/14421-fermenting-under-pressure/http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/27/un...gher-psi-fermentations-exbeeriment-results-2/Cheers G

Thanks mate...Yes the plunge was taking your life in your own hands if you did not do it right. I was the bouncer at the pub and I was asked to do it because I was a strong, fit lad in those days (oh how things have changed). The thing was, it did not matter if you were the Hulk, if you did it wrong... bye bye fore head. As usual, you come through with some awesome information for me. Great, if I can remove the spear which I was calling the ball lock (is this right). I will read what you have put and if needed, put up another post.
Mate, you must stop making assumptions... yes it is Sunday but again you do not know very well...Sundays is my busiest day... I need to go to Church to confess my sins and that usually takes me through to midnight!!!

Cheer mate

 

[user 37368]

I have the nor cal ultimate sanke fermeter kit with a 1/2" bsp on the end, pressure ferments fine.

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ultimate-Sanke-Keg-Tee-Fermenter-Kit.html

 

[Grmblz]

I have the nor cal ultimate sanke fermeter kit with a 1/2" bsp on the end, pressure ferments fine.

https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Ultimate-Sanke-Keg-Tee-Fermenter-Kit.html

Nice bit of kit, but at Au$250 delivered it's a bit pricey.

 

[Meddo]

snip
Buy Ball Lock Tapping Head to 2inch Tri-Clover (Commercial Keg Adaptor)
snip

That's the ticket! Thought I'd seen something that would do the job, forgot about that specific one though. I'm going the other way personally, trying to get rid of ball locks from my brewery.

 

[stick3]

just trying to make it a bit easier quicker and less heavy lifting and in my mid 50s now by using the co2 to transfer and my old pail fermenters have become brittle and one broke last week puting the lid on and the replacement cost $35 each


fermenting in the 50ltr kegs is all the sediment on the bottom when you transfer that will come out first so when you see clear beer in the line switch it to another keg its is doable but you still have to mix it in normal fermenter there a lot of vids on you tube about D type kegs and fittings

i suppose its just trial and error mate thats how we all learn

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

Hi stick3 I believe the is a ball float you can add to the out port which takes the beer from the top of fermenter thereby reducing the "crud" at the bottom

 

[DarrenTheDrunk]

Nice bit of kit, but at Au$250 delivered it's a bit pricey.

agreed and from I can gather, many better-cheaper options

What are you brewing ATM Graeme

 

[Grmblz]

Kegging an ESB today, in fermenters, cider, barley wine, and a Coopers can recipe "Dark Monk" (by popular demand from a couple of dark beer mates)
A couple of thoughts for you,
Can you temp control a 50L keg?
Like you, gone are the days when I could stack 50L kegs on top of each other, would suggest you fill one with water, and move it around your brewery space as if you were using it as a fermenter.
The tapping head I linked to does indeed have a floating dip tube, so you can rack of clear beer once it has all settled, however dumping yeast/trub from a conical (or racking off in this scenario) is best done after high krausen but whilst the fermentation is still active, if you have any hops in the brew and you try this approach you WILL get blocked poppets.
Brew 45L and fill two cornies for ease of moving around or fill your other 50L (can your serving fridge hold a 50L? and if so can you get a cornie in there as well?)
Finally, do you really want 50L of the same beer? I only brew 50L when we have all the kids around for a few days (think xmas holidays)
I do drink too much, but 50L of the same stuff gets very boring, and would last way too long under normal circumstances, sure you could split the brew and play around with additions but you're not going to get a pale ale, and a stout from the same base.
These are just my thoughts applicable to my situation, you may have a very different scenario. Oh, and just give that ball a good whack with a hammer before unscrewing the collar, better safe than sorry, be careful not to damage the face of the keg where the tri clamp seal will sit.

fwiw: I'm with Meddo on ball locks, although my preference would be for A type connectors, you don't have a hole getting full of dust/crud/mouse droppings/cats piss like you do with S/D type, but as mentioned 50L is not practical for me, but if someone came up with a 20L cornie that had an A type connector I'd swap over in a heartbeat.

 

[Meddo]

Kegging an ESB today, in fermenters, cider, barley wine, and a Coopers can recipe "Dark Monk" (by popular demand from a couple of dark beer mates)
A couple of thoughts for you,
Can you temp control a 50L keg?
Like you, gone are the days when I could stack 50L kegs on top of each other, would suggest you fill one with water, and move it around your brewery space as if you were using it as a fermenter.
The tapping head I linked to does indeed have a floating dip tube, so you can rack of clear beer once it has all settled, however dumping yeast/trub from a conical (or racking off in this scenario) is best done after high krausen but whilst the fermentation is still active, if you have any hops in the brew and you try this approach you WILL get blocked poppets.
Brew 45L and fill two cornies for ease of moving around or fill your other 50L (can your serving fridge hold a 50L? and if so can you get a cornie in there as well?)
Finally, do you really want 50L of the same beer? I only brew 50L when we have all the kids around for a few days (think xmas holidays)
I do drink too much, but 50L of the same stuff gets very boring, and would last way too long under normal circumstances, sure you could split the brew and play around with additions but you're not going to get a pale ale, and a stout from the same base.
These are just my thoughts applicable to my situation, you may have a very different scenario. Oh, and just give that ball a good whack with a hammer before unscrewing the collar, better safe than sorry, be careful not to damage the face of the keg where the tri clamp seal will sit.

fwiw: I'm with Meddo on ball locks, although my preference would be for A type connectors, you don't have a hole getting full of dust/crud/mouse droppings/cats piss like you do with S/D type, but as mentioned 50L is not practical for me, but if someone came up with a 20L cornie that had an A type connector I'd swap over in a heartbeat.

Yeah I've gone A-type for the reason you mention. Plenty of smaller versions, I'm running 20L and 10L A-type kegs (Blefa, via Keg Services, no affiliation etc.). At least one of the Keg-somethings stocks 20L kegs with choice of A/D-type spears too, but I decided to go German quality for a smallish cost premium.

Only issue with A-type is there's no low-profile coupler options (that I'm aware of, anyway - and I've been looking) so they're taller than equivalent corny or D-type kegs.

 

[stick3]

Hi stick3 I believe the is a ball float you can add to the out port which takes the beer from the top of fermenter thereby reducing the "crud" at the bottom

hose is attach to the ball float to keep it central and you can t cut the speer you need that for the ball to slide up and down only thing i can think of is to redesign the speer so the hose is attach at the top and block the bottom so you can still use the coupler

 

[bird]

Hey Darren. I've made a couple of pressure fermenters out of 50lt kegs but have converted them to ball lock posts with a floating dip tube. I release the pressure first then cut the centre out of the top so I can fit a corny keg lid in there and use two bulk head ball lock posts. Costs about 50 bux in parts. The bigger hole in the top makes it easier to give it a light scrub if needed and can see inside easily. I have a guten and fill it using the pump with the fermenter already in the fermenting fridge so don't need to lift it full. Does a good job. Use a spunding valve for lagers and a gas disconnect with some beer line going to a jar of sanitizer for ales. I remove the gas disconnect with a couple of gravity points to go and it naturally carbonates.

 

[user 37368]

agreed and from I can gather, many better-cheaper options

What are you brewing ATM Graeme

Yeh, agree certainly cheaper but show me the other better-cheaper option with cip and thermowell.