Power Bill

[pokolbinguy]

I would love to drop our elec bill. We are in NSW do rates are high thanks to energy Aus but aside of that as 3 adults we use about 20kwh per day. If I can get that down <10 would be great but we have electric everything

 

[Nick JD]

Why not just get an extension cord from your neighbour's house and connect it to your "invisible solar array" and pipe it back to the power company to get 50c per kwH when it only costs a fraction of that.

Split the profits with your neighbour.

If that is possible, it says a lot about the situation here.

A bit like going down to your bottlo with 1kg of grain and walking out with a box of piss.

False economy.

 

[booargy]

I grew up in a solar powered house and anyone who thinks it doesn't work doesn't know what they are talking about. In 2007 the solar industry was worth 20 billion. it does not need funding any more and eventually will be cheaper than coal.
Base load is a term used for generators. Any generator needs a minimum load to operate efficiently. A coal fired power station needs about 30% load to operate efficently. So if you have a 600MW Generator you need to have a load of 200MW before it can run on coal. below this it has to run on fuel oil which is big big dollars about a million dollars for 24hrs.
In a remote area power system there is always a generator to provide peak load. Or spend a fortune on batteries. A grid tie system needs no batteries as the power station is the battery. Renewables can't provide peak loads. So unless they come up with really good batteries (or some funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_Solar)coal is here to stay.
Germany will have to import power which will be cheaper in the end because they won't have maintenance costs of a very expensive machine. Nuclear power is uneconomical when the whole fuel cycle is taken into account. Chernobyl still has to be maintained but produces nothing.
Your power bills are going up to fund some non-productive parasites salary and bonus. Meanwhile our power stations is going to shit because they have to turn a profit at the expense of maintenance.
(end rant)

 

[Nick JD]

I grew up in a solar powered house and anyone who thinks it doesn't work doesn't know what they are talking about.

In a remote area power system there is always a generator to provide peak load.

Oh, the irony.

 

[booargy]

Oh, the irony.

Yes it was never started. Oh the irony.

 

[stef]

I could be wrong, but i believe Plasma TVs use a heap more power than LCD's too...

I undertook a whole of life Cost/Benefit analysis a couple of years ago comparing wind power and coal (for a final year uni project). Coal was so much cheaper in the short run that it almost made the wind argument redunant. Obviously, however, the long term is completely different. I believe solar is generally more viable than wind power, but i think either of these are going to take a while to get going (IE, as the technology improves, so does the short term outlook for the energy source).

My wife and I just bought our first house, and our power bills are stuff all. Work 12 hours a day and dont do much when we are home... My work sells PV, so i'll be looking into it, but i imagine for the upfront cost, it would take us 15 years or something to make it worthwhile...

 

[QldKev]

I grew up in a solar powered house and anyone who thinks it doesn't work doesn't know what they are talking about. In 2007 the solar industry was worth 20 billion. it does not need funding any more and eventually will be cheaper than coal.
Base load is a term used for generators. Any generator needs a minimum load to operate efficiently. A coal fired power station needs about 30% load to operate efficently. So if you have a 600MW Generator you need to have a load of 200MW before it can run on coal. below this it has to run on fuel oil which is big big dollars about a million dollars for 24hrs.
In a remote area power system there is always a generator to provide peak load. Or spend a fortune on batteries. A grid tie system needs no batteries as the power station is the battery. Renewables can't provide peak loads. So unless they come up with really good batteries (or some funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areva_Solar)coal is here to stay.
Germany will have to import power which will be cheaper in the end because they won't have maintenance costs of a very expensive machine. Nuclear power is uneconomical when the whole fuel cycle is taken into account. Chernobyl still has to be maintained but produces nothing.
Your power bills are going up to fund some non-productive parasites salary and bonus. Meanwhile our power stations is going to shit because they have to turn a profit at the expense of maintenance.
(end rant)

Thats why Australia has Tassy, so we can setup all the neclear power station somewhere

 

[geoffd]

grid decentralisation and cabon fuel efficiency will be the next big thing before clean energy takes over or at least in tandem while it grows & improves.

there is an Aussie company at the forefront, but as usual our federal govt is allergic to doing anything that might replace coal. It is gaining traction in the rest of the developed world, Germany is probably the fastest developing market, all still at infancy stage though in terms of scale & unit cost.

http://www.cfcl.com.au/


I really hate the garbage that Australia cant do anything to climate change whilst being the largest exporter of coal in the world, it's not about our (albiet high) per capita usage, we're the proverbial "coke" dealers.

 

[booargy]

Thats why Australia has Tassy, so we can setup all the neclear power station somewhere

They must already have them. with the rumors and all. h34r:

 

[Rowy]

grid decentralisation and cabon fuel efficiency will be the next big thing before clean energy takes over or at least in tandem while it grows & improves.

there is an Aussie company at the forefront, but as usual our federal govt is allergic to doing anything that might replace coal. It is gaining traction in the rest of the developed world, Germany is probably the fastest developing market, all still at infancy stage though in terms of scale & unit cost.

http://www.cfcl.com.au/


I really hate the garbage that Australia cant do anything to climate change whilst being the largest exporter of coal in the world, it's not about our (albiet high) per capita usage, we're the proverbial "coke" dealers.

Sorry Father but these days more people believe climate change is crap than believe otherwise. (Refer Newspoll, Galaxy and Nielsen) To stop exporting coal is to have an entire economy collapse with thousands and thousands of people unemployed overnight. There is no clean energy jobs to pick even a small fraction of them up, particularly those without many skills. The so called clean energy jobs particulalry those in manufacturing with be offshore. This is because we won't have cheap power anymore which was the only advantage our manufacturers had. With all due respect over my dead body!

 

[stakka82]

Sorry Father but these days more people believe climate change is crap than believe otherwise.

see also, more people believe that god/allah/yahweh exist than believe otherwise...

 

[leiothrix]

I think with climate change you need to split that into anthropogenic climate change, and climate change in general.

The former is debatable, the latter kinda isn't.

 

[Rowy]

see also, more people believe that god/allah/yahweh exist than believe otherwise...

decreasing in the Western World just like those believing in Global Warming / Climate Change or what ever suits the agenda, anyway thats yesterdays news. Ocean acidification will be the new big thing for the doomsayers...............watch this space.........

 

[stux]

grid decentralisation and cabon fuel efficiency will be the next big thing before clean energy takes over or at least in tandem while it grows & improves.

there is an Aussie company at the forefront, but as usual our federal govt is allergic to doing anything that might replace coal. It is gaining traction in the rest of the developed world, Germany is probably the fastest developing market, all still at infancy stage though in terms of scale & unit cost.

http://www.cfcl.com.au/


I really hate the garbage that Australia cant do anything to climate change whilst being the largest exporter of coal in the world, it's not about our (albiet high) per capita usage, we're the proverbial "coke" dealers.

Love the BlueGen, interestingly they're getting a lot more support from the German government!

 

[Airgead]

Germany if not now very soon will have to import power from France due to their decommissioning of nuclear and their relliance on solar. Sorry the technology isn't even close yet. The reason why the bills have been going up all over Australia is the Governments commitment to 20% base load power from renewables by 2020. Fact not fiction can quote sources if you care.

Actually... no.

Over the last year, through the winter cold snap, Germany was exporting power to nuclear [powered France to make up for their shortfall...

About 5% of your power bill increase is due to renewables. the rest is due to "network charges" which is power companies upgrading the network to cope with higher peak demand (caused mostly by domestic aircon) on a couple of days a year. Power costs will double in the next 10 years at current rates and 90% of that will be network costs. I can give you the IPART reports if you like...

Renewables are the future.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Ocean acidification will be the new big thing for the doomsayers

it already is, and I'm no doomsayer.

 

[D.Moore92]

Have you gentlemen had a look at energywatch.com.au i havent used it but ive heard a lot of good things abought it with some people saving a lot of money. If you ring them up they will let you know if there are any cheaper energy companys you can use. It might be worth having a look at.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Have you gentlemen had a look at energywatch.com.au i havent used it but ive heard a lot of good things abought it with some people saving a lot of money. If you ring them up they will let you know if there are any cheaper energy companys you can use. It might be worth having a look at.

Yeah i tried them, useless....they put me onto Energy Aus from current supplier True energy, turns out TE owns EA anyway and after all the BS the prices were not that different and after the rises at the start of the year they would have been pretty much inline with TE.

I went out on my own and got dodo, heaps cheaper, gotta love the bulk buying power of the chinese.
I then get TE ringing me saying that dodo wont support my meter type and i should stick with them or EA i could end up with no electricity being supplied to my home ect..do i want them to cancel the transfer for me??

SO after some stuffing about i got assurance in writing from dodo that they would have no problem supplying me, so TE just using BS scare tactics to try and keep on there high pricing...

 

[user 384]

cabon fuel efficiency will be the next big thing before clean energy takes over or at least in tandem while it grows & improves.

Bingo!

Forget all the climate doomsayers vs sceptics nonsense, fuel efficiency is a good in itself. Reduce the amount of energy you use and you save money, which can then be used for other purposes or saved. This is a good irrespective of any other impact.

More efficient production, distribution and use of energy will have a greater impact in the short term than renewables. Renewables are the ultimate goal, but energy efficiency is the important step as it will also make renewables more viable.

 

[MarkBastard]

Really good article on power if anyone wants to read it http://www.theglobalmail.org/investigation...wer-bill-surge/