Power Bill

[Amber Fluid]

The dryer every day won't be helping. Those things are terrible for your power bills. The other things that bumps up the power is aircon. Especially if its on a lot. You don't mention how often you use them. Did a power audit on a place once that has $2000/quarter bills. mostly because they ran the aircon all day, every day. With a big house that's only partially occupied (5 bedroom 2 kids) you may well be heating/cooling a bunch of unused space. Make sure the doors to the unused (or less frequently used) rooms are shut and you may find the aircon bills come down.

If you are on a time of day meter you can run the washer and dryer after 9pm to get the lower rates. if you're on a fixed tarriff there's nothing you can do there.

I'm assuming you are on electric hot water. That usually accounts for 40% of your power usage. Make sure its on off peak if its a storage type. You can replace with a heat pump type which is much more efficient or solar with electric boost when the system needs replacing.

I'd also check the insulation in the roof and see if its up to scratch (or present).

Cheers
Dave

Edit: oh yeah... and if you have problems with radiant heat through glass, an external shade or planting a shade screen can make a massive difference. My house has huge windows facing west. used to be an oven. A few plantings later and we don't use the aircon any more.

Yes my house faces west too. Here is a pic (albeit from the real estate before I moved in but the house hasn't changed, only the furniture) of the west side where you can clearly see the lounge window on the top floor in the middle.

Here is a shot from inside the lounge for a better idea of what I am up against:

You can see the pissy little air condition in the not so good spot where the last owners had it installed as well. There is one of these downstairs too.

Unforunately I have no choice regarding the use of the dryer, the wife has it on everyday to dry the kids clothes (3yo and nearly 2yo).

All our services are on power. We have no gas, solar or any other power alternative.
Unfortunately, due to the house design, there are almost no doors so we are not able to close any that would make significant difference. Our hall way has a huge staircase in the middle which is a large void area so we aren't able to shut this area off either.
The air cond is on everyday, if not to cool then duiring winter is to heat and the 2 bedrooms, Rumpas and laundry downstairs have their doors closed most of the time.

We have checked the roof insulation and it appears to be ok.

thanks for your response Dave

 

[Amber Fluid]

I've got a 5 bedroom low set home in Mildura. 2 Adults 2 Kids.

Our last quarterly bill was around $750. Middle of summer. Wife and kids home from school with the Aircon (ducted refrigerated) Cranking. My brewing usage (urn, 3x fridges) pales in comparison.

Our consumption will drop in the next quarter with the better weather. Then it will go back up again in winter with aircon running (for heating).

It's interesting that our power bills aren't much different to our last place (tiny old weatherboard on stumps). This has a lot to do with superior insulation and the way that the house is positioned on the block (long part of the house east-west).

What heats your hot water?
Are you on gas?
It sounds like you are in a similar situation as me. However, I assume your power is slightly cheaper and maybe you are running your stove and hotwater on gas?
I am also a late nighter and often fall asleep in front of TV (65" plasma with Amps, recorders and other players and a rather large speaker system, Jamo Concert 809 series full surround :icon_drool2: ) which doesn't help. i.e. I climbed into bed at 4am this morning having dosed off at 1am with everything still running.


EDIT: I am not trying to be a prick justifying my needs and certainly I really don't need to here, I am only trying to work out where I can save on electricity costs without the need to spend a large some of money.

 

[user 384]

I wouldn't describe my house as energy efficient. It's 236 sqm much of which is open plan, including a large void between the first and second floor. We have huge amounts of glass, 6m wide balcony windows and sliding doors facing east catching all the morning sun, west kitchen and bedroom windows catching the afternoon sun and a centre courtyard with two storey glass windows that face north. The windows are not double glazed. The roof space is really small, there is no way I could crawl through the narrowest section, even on my stomach (there is the minimum legislated insulation in the roof). To top things off, the carpenter on the build was shit and left ridiculous gaps around doors etc.

Admittedly we did install external blinds over the centre courtyard and west facing windows.

My old townhouse was built in 1974. About 120 sqm, 3 stories all open plan, so basically it had about 8m ceilings. The bedroom was on the top floor. The building faced north with enormous windows, no external shading and a dark tiled balcony that acted as a heat sink, re-radiating the day's heat back into the house. There was virtually no gap in the ceiling and no insulation (I eventually had some blow-in insulation installed, which wasn't expensive). That house was stinking hot in summer and freezing in winter. But my power bill was basically the same as now.

Energy conservation has more to do with behaviour than building design. Even the most energy efficient house will cost a lot to run if you crank the air-con all the time, or use clothes dryers instead of washing lines etc.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle.

Reducing and reusing saves money so you can afford to make investments in other areas.

 

[Mayor of Mildura]

What heats your hot water?
Are you on gas?
It sounds like you are in a similar situation as me. However, I assume your power is slightly cheaper and maybe you are running your stove and hotwater on gas?
I am also a late nighter and often fall asleep in front of TV (65" plasma with Amps, recorders and other players and a rather large speaker system, Jamo Concert 809 series full surround :icon_drool2: ) which doesn't help. i.e. I climbed into bed at 4am this morning having dosed off at 1am with everything still running.

Electric hot water. Stove is gas (bottled as natural gas isn't available in our street).
After seeing pictures of your house and also reading that your wife and children are home most of the time it would explain the high bills. Those big windows would also be a killer. Have you considered tinting?

 

[benno1973]

Wow, I'm stunned at some of these numbers. Thank god mine doesn't even come close. We have solar panels (3.7kW) and average a credit of $75/month. Each year the power company sends me a cheque, so I feel quite fortunate. We have a gas cooktop and solar HWS, and we don't use a drier. Still, I have 5 fridges and 4 freezers, not all constantly running, but certainly chewing through the power.

We are quite lucky in that we have quite a solar passive house and 2 kids who have learned to turn out lights .

 

[Amber Fluid]

Yes, I have honestly considered tinting but I guess I haven't taken any action on it which is my doing. I had previously, under recommendation, considered the tinted double glazed windows but the expense ran well above $20K so just never thought about it again.

I agree maybe I should just look at tinting what I already have.

 

[Liam_snorkel]

Not being sarcastic, but in summer can you open the windows and turn on a fan?
That's what we do in QLD.

 

[Airgead]

Yes, I have honestly considered tinting but I guess I haven't taken any action on it which is my doing. I had previously, under recommendation, considered the tinted double glazed windows but the expense ran well above $20K so just never thought about it again.

I agree maybe I should just look at tinting what I already have.

Tinting is expensive but a shadecloth blind is pretty cheap and can cut radiant heat through a window by 80%. Curtains can block a lot of heat.

The question with all this isn't "how can I afford it" its "can I afford not to". If you can cut your bills back to a manageable level, those initial costs will pay for themselves very quickly. If you do nothing, you are committing to giving a bug bunch of your income to the power company and that will get worse not better as power prices continue to rise (expected to double in the next 5-10 years due to network upgrade costs).

You can do a lot with not much money then use the savings to invest in further energy savings.

As a start, I know its hard when you have to dry clothes for small kids but a drying rack in front of those windows would dry them pretty quick smart. Use the heat to your advantage.

Poor house design doesn't help but there is still a lot you can do. My place is a 50 year old west facing weatherboard place. Big west facing windows. No insulation (when we bought it). It has taken 5 years and a lot of effort but hasn't cost us much at all. The biggest expense was roof ventilation and some very serious insulation and that was only a few hundred $. The rest is all blinds and garden plantings.

Shadecloth blinds, shade plantings. All pretty cheap and can make a big difference.

Cheers
Dave

 

[donburke]

Not being sarcastic, but in summer can you open the windows and turn on a fan?
That's what we do in QLD.

but that would let the cold air in during summer in tassie

 

[cdbrown]

Our bill is around $600 per quarter which is 49 units per day (from the bill). Hard to get the usage down when the wife is home all day looking after a 3yo and a 4mo. Too many mozies in the area to open the windows (most open out and can't install fly screens) so the reverse cycle get's a good work out. Electric cook top doesn't seem efficient so will be swapping it out for a gas one soon. Had looked into getting panels but as there are no subsidies in WA anymore and you only earn 7c to export then is costs 21c to import, it's not economical to install. If it was calculated as net import or export over the day then I'd look more closely at installing but exporting power at such a low rate only to pay 3x to get it back is rubbish.

 

[Airgead]

. Too many mozies in the area to open the windows (most open out and can't install fly screens)

Yeah you can. All our windows open out and all have screens. They just fit inside the window.

Cheers
Dave

 

[cdbrown]

Yeah you can. All our windows open out and all have screens. They just fit inside the window.

Cheers
Dave

Our windows have the same type of latch shown at the bottom of this window - http://www.woodenwindowslondon.com/image_l...ig_DSCN2696.jpg

 

[Aces High]

Our bill is around $600 per quarter which is 49 units per day (from the bill). Hard to get the usage down when the wife is home all day looking after a 3yo and a 4mo. Too many mozies in the area to open the windows (most open out and can't install fly screens) so the reverse cycle get's a good work out. Electric cook top doesn't seem efficient so will be swapping it out for a gas one soon. Had looked into getting panels but as there are no subsidies in WA anymore and you only earn 7c to export then is costs 21c to import, it's not economical to install. If it was calculated as net import or export over the day then I'd look more closely at installing but exporting power at such a low rate only to pay 3x to get it back is rubbish.

They days of exporting and making money for solar are gone, unless you signed up on the old scheme. It doesn't mean its not viable, it just means you size a system to reduce your bill rather than export to the grid (here in WA anyway). While the aircon is running during the day the panels are also producing power and offsetting the aircon. Power is going to continue to go up and solar is flatlining in manufacturing costs and may even go down slightly, but you get a reduced power bill from the day you put the system in.


I work for a multinational solar distributor, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but i do belive its worthwhile.

 

[user 384]

Shadecloth blinds, shade plantings. All pretty cheap and can make a big difference.

Good advice. These small, low cost changes will have some of the biggest impact. External shading has the added benefit of not only keeping heat out during the day, but it lets built up heat escape the house at night.

Internal blinds are good in winter. Leave them open during the day to let the warmth in the house, then close at night to help keep the heat in.

Next step would be roof insulation. More expensive but also has a big impact.

Solar panels should be one of the last things to consider. They're expensive and don't reduce your usage of energy, but simply replace your usage.

Do everything you can to reduce first.

 

[Amber Fluid]

Not being sarcastic, but in summer can you open the windows and turn on a fan?
That's what we do in QLD.

Unfortunately the windows in the loungeroom are sealed and can not be opened as are the windows in the roof. The ones next to them, in the kitchen, are actually a sliding door. We can't open this (unless we are present) in fear the kids will get out as we have steps on the deck from the kitchen that they can fall down/over on and the 3yo likes to climb so not taking the risk for her to climb on the table and chairs outside and possibly over the rail. When the kids get a little older then yes, by all means we will have these doors open for sure.

Tinting is expensive but a shadecloth blind is pretty cheap and can cut radiant heat through a window by 80%. Curtains can block a lot of heat.

The question with all this isn't "how can I afford it" its "can I afford not to". If you can cut your bills back to a manageable level, those initial costs will pay for themselves very quickly. If you do nothing, you are committing to giving a bug bunch of your income to the power company and that will get worse not better as power prices continue to rise (expected to double in the next 5-10 years due to network upgrade costs).

You can do a lot with not much money then use the savings to invest in further energy savings.

As a start, I know its hard when you have to dry clothes for small kids but a drying rack in front of those windows would dry them pretty quick smart. Use the heat to your advantage.

Poor house design doesn't help but there is still a lot you can do. My place is a 50 year old west facing weatherboard place. Big west facing windows. No insulation (when we bought it). It has taken 5 years and a lot of effort but hasn't cost us much at all. The biggest expense was roof ventilation and some very serious insulation and that was only a few hundred $. The rest is all blinds and garden plantings.

Shadecloth blinds, shade plantings. All pretty cheap and can make a big difference.

Cheers
Dave

Yeah I agree with most you have here. We currently have venitians in the lounge but they are thin and fixed pretty awkwardly to the window. The window is all glass so it is really impossible to hang are curtain from the lounge.
Not only this but the TV is setup where the window is and it takes up almost all the room. (65")

We also have 2 drying racks (clothes horses we call them) that seem to be always full as it is. because of the location of our tv then it is impractical to have them at that window. nevertheless, they are located at the other end of the kitchen and dry clothes relatively quickly there.

Shade plantings may be a good idea on the deck (in pots) outside the kitchen but impossible out side the lounge window because it is on the 2nd floor.

I am thankful for some of these ideas and will look into employing one or two for sure. The photos I provided earlier are only photos taken before we moved in. As I said the furniture is all different now obviously but I can take a few photos tonight of the situation to make it easier to understand.

 

[Snow]

I find it amusing that some people think that just because something is not the same as them then something else must be wrong.

I assure you there are no grow lights anywhere and the fact remains that this is what the power bill is.

Do you use gas at home?... if so then that is one big difference.
Do you go to bed early?.... if so then that is another.
I guarantee your house is not as hot as what mine gets in the summer. I have had a heat analysis done on the property which gets direct sun all day and the loungeroom's external wall is all standard glass as is about 2.5 meters of the roof. The kitchen is butted to the lounge and that too has an external wall that is all standard glass. We were advised to get tinted double glazed windows and use external roller covers for the windows. That's is all well and good if you have the money for it. Unfortunately I am not in a position to have this done at the moment so we are in a catch 22 situation.

The fact remains, what I mentioned above is our standard bill with no illegit activities. It is a bit hard to prove what activities are conducted so you can only take my word for that. However, it is easy to prove my billing costs which I can do when I get home.

Sooo... if you get so much sun, why don't you put in 4-5KW of solar PV? You don't need your own money - the bank and govt will give you plenty and at $1000 a qtr, your savings will more than cover the interest (and principal) paymets on the loan.

Cheers - Snow.

 

[Rowy]

Even without government rebates, utility scale solar is already at almost grid parity with peaking gas... On a domestic scale solar will be grid parity with coal inside 5 years. Germany (which isn't known for its sunshine) is already 30% solar and plans 100% renewable by 2050.

The problem with solar isn't cost its storage. That's what is slowing utility scale adoption. Lots of interesting work with compressed gas and molten salt storage being done and there are plants running in Europe providing solar baseload power.

The initial investment is high (which is why its slow starting) but once up, the production costs are pretty much 0.

4Kw on my roof and a $300 credit every quarter. That's after running 2 internet businesses and associated servers from home as well as the brewing (4 fridges.. ouch). Best decision I ever made.

Cheers
Dave

Germany if not now very soon will have to import power from France due to their decommissioning of nuclear and their relliance on solar. Sorry the technology isn't even close yet. The reason why the bills have been going up all over Australia is the Governments commitment to 20% base load power from renewables by 2020. Fact not fiction can quote sources if you care.

 

[Barndillo]

But the increase had to be done to pay for the solar powers being fitted to houses the say....

Same dribble the NSW government has been saying.

 

[Aces High]

Germany if not now very soon will have to import power from France due to their decommissioning of nuclear and their relliance on solar. Sorry the technology isn't even close yet. The reason why the bills have been going up all over Australia is the Governments commitment to 20% base load power from renewables by 2020. Fact not fiction can quote sources if you care.

Actually thats fiction. The reason why power is going up is because every government for the last 20 years bled even cent they could out of the electrictity companies without ever putting any money into the grid. At the same time they kept prices artificially low because they were to scared to put the prices up and cop a backlash from the public and maybe lose office over it.

It actually only costs about 7c to produce a kilowatt of electricity, but they are now running constant maintaince programs just to keep the grid running, let alone upgrade it. Its much easier to lay the blame outside their own circle and let the pitchfork waving crowd fill in the gaps themselves

 

[Rowy]

Actually thats fiction. The reason why power is going up is because every government for the last 20 years bled even cent they could out of the electrictity companies without ever putting any money into the grid. At the same time they kept prices artificially low because they were to scared to put the prices up and cop a backlash from the public and maybe lose office over it.

It actually only costs about 7c to produce a kilowatt of electricity, but they are now running constant maintaince programs just to keep the grid running, let alone upgrade it. Its much easier to lay the blame outside their own circle and let the pitchfork waving crowd fill in the gaps themselves

So your saying it costs the same to produce power from coal as it does from renewables such as wind and solar I take it?