Pouring pressure

[nala]

I have 4 kegs in my fridge which are conditioning naturally at 15 psi.
I am happy with the beer conditioning but would like to be able to reduce the pressure for pouring from the keg on tap.
Does any brewer use an ancillary pressure regulator to achieve this ?
I am wondering if I could introduce another regulator to lower the pressure on the keg on tap.
Any other suggestion would also be appreciated.

 

[sponge]

Why can't you condition your kegs at serving pressure? It will take a little longer to get full carbed but works just as well with no need to worry about changing pressure for serving.

Otherwise you can always use a dual-pressure regulator such as this. One side for conditioning, the other for serving.

 

[nosco]

Serving pressure and carbonating pressure should be the same unless you are force carbing. Otherwise your beer will lose (or gain carbonation if you have higher serving pressure) as you pour more beers. So then it's a case of line balancing. If you want to decrees serving pressure then increase your beer line length.

 

[Siborg]

If you want to decrees serving pressure then increase your beer line length.

And/or use thicker ID line.

 

[Rocker1986]

Carbonating at serving pressure is still force carbing. It's just slower. I agree with the suggestion of carbing them at serving pressure. This way you won't end up with over carbed beer.

Another method I use to get it done a little quicker is to stick a new keg in at 35 PSI for 24 hours, then turn off its gas and remove the disconnect, give it a few hours, burp the keg, then re-hook up the gas at normal serving pressure. It still takes a few days to get it carbed, but it's a bit quicker than doing the whole lot at serving pressure and still doesn't over-carb it. I kegged a beer last Monday and used this method on it, by Saturday it was nicely carbonated.

I've also noticed when the kegs start to get down towards being empty that if I leave the gas on to them, they seem to pour more and more foam, so I have taken to turning off their gas supply unless I'm actually pouring one. Seems to have helped with this issue.

 

[nala]

Thank you for the advice.
I have decided to go with dual regulators.
I bought a Keg King connector and a Mk 11 regulator.
Any advice on what I should aim for on the two pressures I should use for ales and IPA's ?

 

[Dae Tripper]

Have a serving pressure and a force carbing one. Ales and IPA (an ale) are good at one pressure. Wheats a bit more, stouts less.
My keg fridge fits 4 and have 3 off one reg and the other is spare/carber/different beer reg.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Thank you for the advice.
I have decided to go with dual regulators.
I bought a Keg King connector and a Mk 11 regulator.
Any advice on what I should aim for on the two pressures I should use for ales and IPA's ?

It sounds like you missed an important point in the above posts. Your kegs carbonation level (volumes of CO2) will equilibrate to whatever the serving pressure is. So having one regulator for carbonating (conditioning) and one for serving is a fruitless exercise unless of course you dispense your full keg at the alternative serving pressure quite quickly (within 12-24 hours). There is no easy method around keg/line balancing, unless you get flow control taps but even that's not absolutely perfect. Hope that helps.

 

[nala]

What I am trying to understand is...some beers/lagers require a higher carbonation,the use of two regulators would achieve this,however,after achieving full carbonation to the rquired level the next requirement is to serve the beer without a glass full of foam!
This is my question...how do I achieve this ?

 

[Benn]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/14988-ahb-wiki-balancing-a-draught-system/?p=292018
Have a play with the "Crozdog Spreadsheet" if you haven't already. One tab has a general carbonation guide for individual beer styles and the other tab is a useful tool to help you work out your line lengths etc.
worked for me anyway.
Cheers,

 

[nosco]

As a home Brewer you have to find a happy medium unfortunately. If you want different carbonation for different beers then your looking at big $. Co2 regulators need adjusting I find which means they are not set and forget.

I have 3 regs now. When I had only 2 regulators I had one (closest to the gas bottle) set at 40psi for over night (24hr ish) carbonating. The other was set to 14-16 psi which I find I like in lagers and ipa's, apa's, etc.

At 14psi I find that about 3.5 metres of beer line is pretty good. Some use more some use less but that also depends on if your taps are cold. I've recently put in computer fans in my keezer (it only took me a year to finish it) which helps a lot to keep the taps colder and has improved my pouring heaps. If cold beer hits a warm tap you'll get foam as well.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

What I am trying to understand is...some beers/lagers require a higher carbonation,the use of two regulators would achieve this,however,after achieving full carbonation to the rquired level the next requirement is to serve the beer without a glass full of foam!
This is my question...how do I achieve this ?

You can do this with 2 regulators. You will need longer lines for the higher carbonation beer lines to balance, or flow control taps which might be more flexible for you. So for example:

Reg 1 set @ 80kPa (11.6PSI) for your standard 2.2-2.4 volumes of CO2 beers like pale ales etc.
Reg 2 set @ 120kPa (17.4PSI) for your higher carb 3.0 volumes of CO2 beers like hefeweizens, saisons etc.

You may be able to balance the system all for the Reg 1 standard volumes setting and just put up with the faster pour rate on the higher carb beers, but if you'll always have higher carb beers on tap then you should balance their lines accordingly.

 

[nala]

What I am learning from the replies to this topic...it ain't easy!
I have two regulators now,one I have set to 15 psi...this to carbonate and allow maturity.
The other is at 6 psi for pouring,only two kegs are connected to the different pressures at any time.
I have standard bought lengths of 8mm OD line...these are coiled but I think would be 2 metres long.
Rather than caculating the line length would it not be better to have say, both lines of three metres ?

 

[gap]

You need to know the ID of your beer line. The OD is only important if you are using the likes of John Guest disconnects and fittings.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

What I am learning from the replies to this topic...it ain't easy!
I have two regulators now,one I have set to 15 psi...this to carbonate and allow maturity.
The other is at 6 psi for pouring,only two kegs are connected to the different pressures at any time.
I have standard bought lengths of 8mm OD line...these are coiled but I think would be 2 metres long.
Rather than caculating the line length would it not be better to have say, both lines of three metres ?

Sorry mate I can't stress enough the fact that your suggested method above will result in loss or gain in carbonation once you hook up to your serving pressure. Which has previously been mentioned above anyway.

You must condition/carbonate AND serve at the same pressure to ensure your carbonation will remain consistent. It's physics and there are no known ways to man around it.

 

[Rocker1986]

I guess I'm fortunate in that I like pretty much the same carbonation level in all my beers. The exception would be porters/stouts which I prefer with less. I have a manifold for my gas lines and only one regulator. My plan with these dark beers is to stick them on serving pressure straight up (rather than my 35 PSI for 24 hours first) then work out how many days it takes to get a carb level I like, then switch off their gas and only turn it on every 2nd or 3rd glass to roughly maintain this level in the beer. We'll see how this works out when I get one done and in the keg..

 

[nosco]

What DJ said. Plus 2 meters of beer line would NOT be enough I reckon and will result in foam.

If you ask a home brew shop for beer line without specifying they will give you 8 mm OD with 5mm ID. It's pretty much the standard.

So if your reg is set to 12-16 psi (which is serving/carbonation pressure) then start with maybe 4.5 meters of beer line to be safe. It will not effect the carbonation of your beer but it might pour a bit slow. Then cut a bit of the beer line of a bit at a time until you have the desired flow rate. Maybe for your first tap cut off 200-300mm at a time. Then when you have that set you can copy the length for other taps. It will never be perfect but you'll still be impressed with the result.

 

[nala]

Thanks to everyone for your contributions, I will see how things go over the next four weeks.