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Well...if you ran Linux, you would not need NOD32, norton, adaware,spybot etc..etc..

I changed cause I got sick of all the virus/adware/spyware crap, having to constantly defrag, XP getting SSSLLOOOOWWWW, registry issues....it just goes on...


And whats the go with having to restart EVERYTIME you install new software in Win..AAAGGHHH

And as for hardware, that has not really been an issue, infact all the drivers I have had to install have been tiny compared to XP....
 
Well...if you ran Linux, you would not need NOD32, norton, adaware,spybot etc..etc..

I changed cause I got sick of all the virus/adware/spyware crap, having to constantly defrag, XP getting SSSLLOOOOWWWW, registry issues....it just goes on...


And whats the go with having to restart EVERYTIME you install new software in Win..AAAGGHHH

And as for hardware, that has not really been an issue, infact all the drivers I have had to install have been tiny compared to XP....

no offense Stu, but recompiling the kernel each time you update your hardware isn't for everyone. Windows ships each OS with a REALLY large driver package, has a standard process for installing/uninstalling software packages, offers reliable and easy to use GUI interfaces, also offering better help pages and manuals for the newbies. People will scream "Linux" until the cows come home but I fear that these same people are the same that will only ever bother to use something if it's free (i.e tightarses)

Linux (or Unix) has no real advantage over the everyday home user, if you are having problems with virii, spyware, adware. the problem isn't within the OS, it's with the user. In another example, most people here can AG and I can barely K&K. But I've not had a virus in 10 years.
 
I had a heap of probs a while back and found a free prog called SuperAntispyware, this thing kicked arse, it did a search while the PC was booting up and removed root kits and everything. I now combine that with Avast antivirus and I am pretty confident that I won't have any more issues.

cheers

Browndog
 
no offense Stu, but recompiling the kernel each time you update your hardware isn't for everyone. Windows ships each OS with a REALLY large driver package, has a standard process for installing/uninstalling software packages, offers reliable and easy to use GUI interfaces, also offering better help pages and manuals for the newbies. People will scream "Linux" until the cows come home but I fear that these same people are the same that will only ever bother to use something if it's free (i.e tightarses)

Linux (or Unix) has no real advantage over the everyday home user, if you are having problems with virii, spyware, adware. the problem isn't within the OS, it's with the user. In another example, most people here can AG and I can barely K&K. But I've not had a virus in 10 years.

Hey Quantocks, maybe we should call linux gloatware :p

cheers

Browndog
 
Beat me to it Silver_Streak!

Gotta love OS X!

Was going to suggest MalwareBytes but it seems I was beaten to the punch. We use it at work for virus/trojan/spyware removal and haven't found one it can't remove as yet.

Norton etc don't pick these trojans up as they're not classed as virii.... Gotta get a specific malware program to deal with the buggers.

Cheers
 
Or you can just get a mac :D

and be locked into using extremely limited, DRM'd, proprietry software :)

Hey Quantocks, maybe we should call linux gloatware tongue.gif

cheers

Browndog


I guess if these guys call Windows 'bloatware', Linux can be considered 'gloatware'., because you spend 8 hours recompiling a kernel to work with your latest Soundblaster Pro soundcard, but with Microsoft products it's plug'n'play, however, that's no good as you want 'choice' and you hate paying for stuff. ;)
 
Thanks for the replys guys -

I think I have it nailed down and mostly fixed - Quantocks, I am running Firefox, spybot S&D and the free AVG for virus check.

My bad ... hadn't run update on spybot for a month and look what sneaked through.

Spybot picked it up on a scan and had a crack at it - seems to have pulled its teeth but not removed it. The damn thing is still popping up a new window every now and then, but it can't connect to the sites it is trying to download.

AVG worked out what the hell was going on when spybot was in the middle of trying to fix it, I think AVG might have interfered with S&D doing its job :rolleyes:

I will re-scan overnight and have another crack at cleaning up in the morning, if I still have issues I might drop you line for links to that NOD32 package or perhaps the Malwarebytes one

Thanks again for the assistance.

Thirsty

PS - only last night I started to install debian linux on my laptop (not enough grunt for ubuntu) .... if I like it, well who knows
 
no offense Stu, but recompiling the kernel each time you update your hardware isn't for everyone. Windows ships each OS with a REALLY large driver package, has a standard process for installing/uninstalling software packages, offers reliable and easy to use GUI interfaces, also offering better help pages and manuals for the newbies. People will scream "Linux" until the cows come home but I fear that these same people are the same that will only ever bother to use something if it's free (i.e tightarses)

Linux (or Unix) has no real advantage over the everyday home user, if you are having problems with virii, spyware, adware. the problem isn't within the OS, it's with the user. In another example, most people here can AG and I can barely K&K. But I've not had a virus in 10 years.

A couple of points:
- You don't need to recompile the kernel ever, unless you have some exotic hardware that is unsupported. Linux allows you to recompile the kernel if you want to optimise the performance of your hardware, unlike certain other OSs.
- Reactivating your OS each time you update your hardware isn't for everyone.
- Ubuntu also ships with a really large collection of drivers
- Ubuntu also has a standard process for installing and uninstalling software packages
- Windows may have superior man pages, but most people I know use the net anyway and there is plenty of info out there. How often do you use windows help?
- Why would you pay to use something when an equivalent is available for free? The fact is, every day home users use computers mainly to surf the web. Why pay $400 for an operating system when what you really want is a web browser?
- The average person certainly does have a problem with viruses, spyware and adware. Yet you think an OS that protects the user from these things is no real advantage???
 
I had this bug a while ago.

It was a Zlob Downloader.

It kept popping up windows and flashing stuff at me wanting me to downlead virus software....... your computer is infected ect ect.

clicked the wrong button on the wrong popup and it started loading. I looked at it and thought........... oh no......... im fucked.

My laptop is a company owned unit and im fairly sure they monitor everything i do and say on it. The IT guy wont even look me in the eye but he is a poof. I hope he reads this!

spybot wouldnt kill it and they ended up pulling the hard drive and building me a new one. took me 3 days to lead all the software i use back on, not to mention the thousands of dollare worth of licences.

Quantocks......... if you have a great all in one scanner i can use i would love a copy. Spybot picks up some bits and pieces but i suspect there are some minor bits its missing. Im not having trouble but sometimes the computer sits and thinks when it shouldnt.

can you email installs mate?

cheers
 
Yep, there's plenty of info out there on how to use and manage linux, but you shouldn't have to read any of it for day-to-day usage. In order to do anything in linux, you have to know beforehand exactly what you're planning to do, and hence what command you need to enter with specific switches. Linux users talk about "user-friendly" as a pejorative - why would you want something to be easy to use, when you can have so much more freedom of configuration and operation without it? An operating system is supposed to be easy to use. It's supposed to facilitate the use of the computer, not be a use in and of itself. Windows has pointers and prompts - intrinsic documentation, rather than internal (man pages) - which allow you to do what you want even if you don't know, or don't remember, how to do it beforehand. "I'd like to change some settings on my sound card. Well, I start by pressing 'start', now settings are in the control panel, and, oh look, there's a thing called 'Sounds and Audio devices'". Linux front-ends are getting better with this sort of thing, but there is still an awful lot of very basic tasks for which the first instruction is "open a terminal window". And if you don't know which command you're looking for, man isn't going to help you.

There's a large element of intellectual snobbery involved - people who aren't smart enough to use linux use windows because they don't know any better. I'm an example of someone who is smart enough to use linux, I've had to use it for many different things over my years as a computer systems engineer, and given the choice, I'll go with windows every time. I shouldn't have to use all my years of training and experience in order to just use my damn computer.

And if you think you don't have compatibility issues, it's only because you've learned to live without the vast swathes of hardware and equipment which don't work under linux. Some of these things you can bash about until you get something that kinda works some of the time, and call it working, but again, that's a lot of sunk resources to plug in a camera or play a game (don't get me started on WINE).

Sure, linux is better protected against viruses and adware. I suspects that's as much because of its enhanced security as it is because linux users are vastly fewer in number, technologically literate, and paranoid, and thus not worth the effort. But either way, if it's just as effective at thwarting the poor schmuck who has to use it as it is at thwarting spammers and hackers, then how useful is it? Really?
 
In order to do anything in linux, you have to know beforehand exactly what you're planning to do, and hence what command you need to enter with specific switches

This is either a horrible exaggeration or you mustn't have used a recent distro. I'm using Ubuntu 8.04 and I find it very logical and user friendly. You don't have to touch a command line for things an average user would want to do.

An operating system is supposed to be easy to use. It's supposed to facilitate the use of the computer, not be a use in and of itself. Windows has pointers and prompts - intrinsic documentation, rather than internal (man pages) - which allow you to do what you want even if you don't know, or don't remember, how to do it beforehand. "I'd like to change some settings on my sound card. Well, I start by pressing 'start', now settings are in the control panel, and, oh look, there's a thing called 'Sounds and Audio devices'". Linux front-ends are getting better with this sort of thing, but there is still an awful lot of very basic tasks for which the first instruction is "open a terminal window". And if you don't know which command you're looking for, man isn't going to help you.

What average user want to change some settings in their sound card? In any case, in Ubuntu it's a matter of clicking on the "system" menu, "preferences", "sound". Doesn't sound too complex does it? In fact, "system" to me sounds a whole lot more logical than "start".

There's a large element of intellectual snobbery involved - people who aren't smart enough to use linux use windows because they don't know any better. I'm an example of someone who is smart enough to use linux, I've had to use it for many different things over my years as a computer systems engineer, and given the choice, I'll go with windows every time. I shouldn't have to use all my years of training and experience in order to just use my damn computer.

You certainly don't need to be a computer systems engineer to figure out Ubuntu. It's point and click for christ sake. It's a matter of learning a subtly different way of doing the same thing in Windows. Instead of a start menu you have a system menu. Instead of the blue e you have firefox.

And if you think you don't have compatibility issues, it's only because you've learned to live without the vast swathes of hardware and equipment which don't work under linux. Some of these things you can bash about until you get something that kinda works some of the time, and call it working, but again, that's a lot of sunk resources to plug in a camera or play a game (don't get me started on WINE).

There probably are some hardware issues, though quite rare with common or relatively new hardware. I agree that a major drawback of linux is lack of games and graphics card drivers. Not being a gamer it doesn't particularly bother me and I'd imagine this is improving with the increased take up of linux. The only real gripes I've had so far has been with running obscure programs like sopcast and Etax. Sopcast I got working (yes using command line :eek: ), Etax, need to boot into the dreaded XP partition. Cameras have all worked just fine. Beersmith and Promash also run perfectly in WINE. ;)

Sure, linux is better protected against viruses and adware. I suspects that's as much because of its enhanced security as it is because linux users are vastly fewer in number, technologically literate, and paranoid, and thus not worth the effort. But either way, if it's just as effective at thwarting the poor schmuck who has to use it as it is at thwarting spammers and hackers, then how useful is it? Really?

It's probably a bit of both. The fact that linux users are not logged in as root by default goes a long way to protecting them. Also, the fact that the web browser is not an operating system shell is helpful. And ActiveX? What were they thinking?

By the way, Ubuntu is the first linux distro I've used and I've been going for around 6 months now without any serious issues. Even my (non-geek) missus has picked it up and is perfectly happy with it.
 
This thread really changed quickly didn't it?

For my $0.02 (and to get in before the flame war really heats up); I use XP at home so I can run games/various programs. I run Ubuntu at work on my laptop because I'm doing research (calculations). Both work for what the are intended for.

XP has the advantage that as long as you don't do anything silly, it won't break (it may get slow, it might catch a cold, but it won't need a reconfigure any time soon). Most people who complain about Windows crashing a lot have done something to make it crash a lot. "I changed some system files I didn't understand and now stupid Windows crashes, wah wah wah."

Ubuntu has the advantage that if you know what you're doing, you can (safely) change absolutely everything, and have control over how your machine runs. Most people who complain about *nix see what can be done and figure it's all that hard. The front-ends supplied with Ubuntu can emulate a Windows desktop/Control Panel to a tee. "I don't know how 'grep' or 'make' or 'sudo' works, I haven't looked them up, but it's probably too hard, wah wah wah."

The ideal situation;

From Microsoft: Don't have things running if they're not needed. Don't make 'administrator' the easiest/best choice for everyone. Let me do things the fast way if I know how ...

'for i in ls *.f90 ; do mv $i `echo $i | sed -i s/abc/def/` ; done' --- let's see XP do that.

From Ubuntu: Get support from game/program writers. Get the installs working smoothly on just about everything. Be more accessible to people who don't want to learn anything.

I know - the latter ones aren't really Ubuntu's fault, what can I say - it's a pretty great OS as it is. I'd bet that most people if sat down in front of the latest (pre-installed) version of Ubuntu would find it rather nice, would be able to do pretty much everything they do in Windows, and would actually find it less of a hassle.

[/rant]
 
Yep, there's plenty of info out there on how to use and manage linux, but you shouldn't have to read any of it for day-to-day usage. In order to do anything in linux, you have to know beforehand exactly what you're planning to do, and hence what command you need to enter with specific switches. Linux users talk about "user-friendly" as a pejorative - why would you want something to be easy to use, when you can have so much more freedom of configuration and operation without it? An operating system is supposed to be easy to use. It's supposed to facilitate the use of the computer, not be a use in and of itself. Windows has pointers and prompts - intrinsic documentation, rather than internal (man pages) - which allow you to do what you want even if you don't know, or don't remember, how to do it beforehand. "I'd like to change some settings on my sound card. Well, I start by pressing 'start', now settings are in the control panel, and, oh look, there's a thing called 'Sounds and Audio devices'". Linux front-ends are getting better with this sort of thing, but there is still an awful lot of very basic tasks for which the first instruction is "open a terminal window". And if you don't know which command you're looking for, man isn't going to help you.

There's a large element of intellectual snobbery involved - people who aren't smart enough to use linux use windows because they don't know any better. I'm an example of someone who is smart enough to use linux, I've had to use it for many different things over my years as a computer systems engineer, and given the choice, I'll go with windows every time. I shouldn't have to use all my years of training and experience in order to just use my damn computer.

And if you think you don't have compatibility issues, it's only because you've learned to live without the vast swathes of hardware and equipment which don't work under linux. Some of these things you can bash about until you get something that kinda works some of the time, and call it working, but again, that's a lot of sunk resources to plug in a camera or play a game (don't get me started on WINE).

Sure, linux is better protected against viruses and adware. I suspects that's as much because of its enhanced security as it is because linux users are vastly fewer in number, technologically literate, and paranoid, and thus not worth the effort. But either way, if it's just as effective at thwarting the poor schmuck who has to use it as it is at thwarting spammers and hackers, then how useful is it? Really?
:icon_offtopic:

You can't be objective can you?
 
fair enough about the Linux thing, but I just don't think it's for everyone. I've used Debian to RedHat to Ubuntu to Slackware, I'd take Windows any day of the week.

I've PM'd a few of you the links to Eset's NOD32, give it a whirl. It's been constantly rated the best anti-virus/anti-spyware program by most PC magazines. It takes up bugger all memory too which is why I like it.

or jump on google and type in NOD32 rapidshare, download links will all pop up :)
 
If you have one of these infections you really need to wipe out your system and start again. You can not trust your system once it has been infected. You don't know what it has left behind that the anti vir/malware community has not found yet. I say blow the whole system away and start again.

<Off topic>
Anyone that makes the assertion that "Linux is too hard" is either taking the piss or hasn't used a distro like Ubuntu lately. Using Ubuntu is no more difficult that using Windows and decidedly less complex than using Vista. It's just different and not what you are used to. If you took people from before they had used computers and started them on Linux I don't think it would be any more difficult to learn. That is a lot different to making a transition which can be difficult.

On it being more secure it is much like any Unix system. By default you only run with user access privilege so you simply can't hose the system because you don't, and any software run as a result f your actions, have the the required access. This is something that MS has finally caught up with, in their consumer systems, and implemented in Vista. I'm not a fan of their implementation but it's a start.

I'm a bit of an idealist and would like to see free software everywhere. At the end of the day it's the right tool for the job though. Often windows is not the right tool and you can find something better if you look around.

As for OS X being proprietary DRM software. Remember it is built on the Open Source Darwin core, this is basically FreeBSD. This allows you to run almost all of the free software that is available for BSD and Linux. It is proprietary but you have choices. You can do a lot of that with cygwin on windows too. I haven't used it in years so I can't attest to the state of that project though.
</Off topic>
 
Ubuntu has really draged Linux into the modern age.

I absolutly love the package manager, just type in what you are looking for, select, hit install, bingo. I find it much easier than Win..and FREE

And graphic wise ( as in desktops ) nothing that M$ makes comes close to some of the really neat featurs that Ubuntu has, like the cube, true multiple desktops, program preveiw pages than can be a godsend sometimes and the general bling that it has. Ok I will admit that there are some driver issues with some manufacturers, but that issue is decreasing

Yes command line stuff can be tricky, but it sure does save heaps of time, and you can actually LEARN what your PC is doing..


And drivers....well win loves big fat drivers...take my 3G USB modem..XP required a 32Mb driver, Ubuntu required an 18Kb driver to do the same bloody job...


I like the fact that my ubuntu has only what I want in it and does what I want, rather than pay $$$ for something that tells me what it wants and needs....
 
Cost me a new hard drive

Batz
 

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