Poor Efficiency With Wheat

[jimmy01]

Hi Everyone

I need some help with a mash result from the week-end. I have tried reading John Palmer's and Dave Miller's books to find out what I did wrong, but I am just getting more confused.

I was mashing for a Hefe Weizen with 3kg Wheat Malt, 2 kg of Pilsener Malt and 200g Crystal for a 23l batch. The recipe I used called for a protein rest at 50C for 30 min and Saccrification at 68C for 60min. Got pH down to about 5.6 using Ca SO4. I use infusion mash method and using Beer Smith I hit these temperatures pretty closely. However effciency was poor - about 60% into the boiler. I usually get about 70-75%. Final OG is only 1.035

Got my malt from the same place as usual and the crush looked good.

Now have a decision to make whether to add some DME or wait to see what a mid strength Hefe tastes like.

Any advice appreciated - other than giving up Wheat Beers!


Cheers

 

[Bizarre]

Hi Jimmy, dunno if its something about wheat (some of the other blokes might be able to shed some light) but I had a similar drop in efficiency in my last batch. I normally hit about 79% efficiency with my AG's, but the last batch I did - which was a honey wheat with 60% wheat and 40% Marris Otter - I noticed my efficiency dropped to 71%. I wonder if its something about wheat that makes extraction harder?

I just thought I had screwed someyhing up at the time - even though I did the same as I always do.
This has got me thinkin now ..

cheers
:chug:

 

[jimmy01]

Thanks Bizarre

I'm wondering the same thing - that the high % of wheat is a factor. I'm also wondering whether the protein rest at 50C has something to do with the low efficiency. I've never used this step before so have nothing to compare it to.

Cheers

 

[tangent]

i just go by the theory - wheat's a bit of a *******,
and add a little more pilsner malt to adjust, then it all works ok. My protein rest is only ever 5-10 minutes, something about losing body and head retention in the end or something......(?) I think it was in Radical Brewing.

 

[jimmy01]

i just go by the theory - wheat's a bit of a *******,
and add a little more pilsner malt to adjust, then it all works ok. My protein rest is only ever 5-10 minutes, something about losing body and head retention in the end or something......(?) I think it was in Radical Brewing.

Hi Tangent

Thanks for the reply

I saw something similar in John Palmer's "How to Brew". He cautions about loss of body and head retention using a protein rest with well modified malts. However he still recommends a rest when using wheat malt. Maybe I'll try a shorter rest next time. Maybe 10 mins. I'll consider increasing the Pilsener Malt as well , though I don't want to lose the wheatiness.

cheers

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Jimmy,
mashing in with that much wheat @ 50C is gonna lead to all sorts of problems.
How well does your sparging go?
I get between 75-80% efficiency for my wheats.
My typical mash programme for a wheat is:
Mash in @ 35C. Rest 5 min.
Raise temperature to 50C over 10-15 min.
Rest 15-20 min.
Pull decoction & raise to 70C.
Rest for 15-20 min.
Bring decoction to boil.
Boil 15-20 min.
Return decoction to main mash for 64C rest.
Rest for 20 min.
Pull second decoction & raise to 70C.
Rest 15-20 min.
Bring decoction to boil.
Boil 15-20 min.
Return decoction to main mash for 70C rest
Rest for 20 min.
Raise temp to 76C over 10 min.
Rest 10 min.
Sparge slowly.

Of course, if decoction mashing is not practical then a step mash of 35C, 50C, 64C, 70C, 76C would do the job.

As far as books go, 'German Wheat Beers', by Eric Warner has got everything you could want or need to know about making a wheat beer.

 

[PostModern]

I've found that wheat benefits going thru the mill twice. Much tougher grain than barley.

 

[jimmy01]

Thanks Gonzo

Sparging seemed to go quite well - no hint of it getting stuck.
I haven't tried Decoction. I have a converted eski for infusion mashing so not sure if decoction is practical. Maybe step mashing will be better with my setup. I will try playing around with beersmith to see if It can work out the steps required.

Love the German wheat beers and am keen to make a good one so will try and get Warner's book.



Thanks also Post Modern. My HBS crushes the grain for me. Will talk to the helpful Norm to see if can crush the wheat a 2nd time.

Cheers Guys

 

[Bizarre]

I've found that wheat benefits going thru the mill twice. Much tougher grain than barley.

I noticed the drill has to work a bit harder with wheat - so I did actually do 2 passes thru my mill with it, it seems to be a pretty robust grain!

 

[Tony]

Most people run the wheat through the mill at the same setting as the barly and this can (not always) lead to a course crack on the wheat.

We all know what happens when we crack course........ our efficiency drops like a brides nighty.

I crack my wheat fine (if its all chunky bits with no flour its to course) and the barly normal and chuck in 10% rice gulls to weight of grain.

It helps me

cheers

 

[jimmy01]

Hi Tony

What does the rice gulls do?

 

[jimmy01]

Wooo Hoooooo
Made 50 posts.

Only about 3000 behind you now Ross

Sorry for the hijack. Just got a bit excited

 

[hockadays]

I had a drop in eff of around 5% with the last wheat I made as well. I use 55% malted wheat but got the wheat from a different place that cracked it so it could have been the different grind. I also sparged a little quicker than normal so I thought this may have been the culprit. I guess I'll have to brew more to investigate...

hockadays

 

[Whistlingjack]

I've been getting around 70% with my hefeweizen. Because I'm running low on pilsner malt, I increased the wheat proportion and my efficiency dropped.

From what I'm reading here, apart from step or decoction mashes, the best way to increase efficiency would be to crush finer.

I was under the impression that the best malts were highly modified and produced better efficincy without the need for decoction or step mashes.

 

[Stuster]

If you really want to know about efficiencies, fly v. batch sparging and mill settings, sosman's great info is here. The site has lots of other great info as well. :super:

 

[Weizguy]

g'day jimmy01,

For 2 cents, I would give my opinion. It would be that you may need a better crush on your wheat. As the wheat grain coat needs to stronger if it's not protected by the husk of barley, teliologically-speaking, then I should expect it to be harder to crack. As the wheat is smaller and harder than the barley malt, you shoud mill to a finer consistency to break up the wheat into fragments, and perhaps even mill the brewing malt to produce larger husk in order to cope with the starchy wheat.

Don't wanna boast, but - true fact - my lhbs will custom mill the grainbill, possibly without an extra fee.

My wheat beer worts always run free, and I usually achieve better efficiency with my wheat beers, too (but never worse, anyway).

I also find the Aussie wheat malt to be less variable than the German wheat, in terms of extraction efficiency.

Oh, BTW, a triple decoction makes your house smell nice.

Beerz
Seth

 

[Voosher]

g'day jimmy01,

For 2 cents, I would give my opinion. It would be that you may need a better crush on your wheat. As the wheat grain coat needs to stronger if it's not protected by the husk of barley, teliologically-speaking, then I should expect it to be harder to crack. As the wheat is smaller and harder than the barley malt, you shoud mill to a finer consistency to break up the wheat into fragments, and perhaps even mill the brewing malt to produce larger husk in order to cope with the starchy wheat.

I crush wheat finer than barley. The harder grain requires a finer crush. I send it through once on the barley setting and then through again on a finer setting. I don't know how effective it really is but I'm hoping to split the grain before crushing it in the hope that I have some large pieces similar to the barley husks for the sake of the sparge.

 

[jimmy01]

g'day jimmy01,

For 2 cents, I would give my opinion. It would be that you may need a better crush on your wheat. As the wheat grain coat needs to stronger if it's not protected by the husk of barley, teliologically-speaking, then I should expect it to be harder to crack. As the wheat is smaller and harder than the barley malt, you shoud mill to a finer consistency to break up the wheat into fragments, and perhaps even mill the brewing malt to produce larger husk in order to cope with the starchy wheat.

Don't wanna boast, but - true fact - my lhbs will custom mill the grainbill, possibly without an extra fee.

My wheat beer worts always run free, and I usually achieve better efficiency with my wheat beers, too (but never worse, anyway).

I also find the Aussie wheat malt to be less variable than the German wheat, in terms of extraction efficiency.

Oh, BTW, a triple decoction makes your house smell nice.

Beerz
Seth

Thanks Seth

Crushing wheat finer seems to be a common theme. I'll definitely be giving it that a go and will source some German wheat.

Do you mind if I ask you about the mash profile that you use? I don't want to go down the raod of deccotion unless its really necessary.


Cheers
Jimmy