Polyclar Users

[Thirsty Boy]

Why - because clear beer is pretty. How things look can effect the way they taste. Thats why chefs go to so much trouble to present food well even though it would taste the same if it was just poured on the plate from a height. Plus the stability thing, but mostly for looks.

I want to convert people to homebrew - and nothing makes them go "oh... homebrew is it?" faster than seeing beer that isn't clear. After that, it doesn't matter what it actually tastes like - its yeasty muddy inferior homebrew. Hand them a glass of crystal clear beer, and at least it will make it to their lips before they pronounce it to be shit.

I add polyclar and filter every single beer I make - when I hold my glass of porter or RIP up to the light, I want to see those ruby highlights shining at the edges like its a stained glass window.

Steve - I have added it to carbed up kegs before. I use a syringe body to suck up the PVPP solution, then inject it in through the gas post using the syringe to push in the poppet. Burp keg to atmospheric pressure and lock open the pressure relief valve first of course. Means I don't have to open up the keg and I minimise oxygen contact.

Usually I just add it into primary after crash chilling for a day or two, swirl it around, let it sit for 10mins and filter.

TB

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Whilst Rukh answered the question already, for the longer version have a look here

Although this isn't the really long version. I can't for the life of me find that one. Lots of lovely chemistry stuff... :icon_drool2:

FFS do you have to be a rocket scientist to get ones head around the Proanthocyanidins, polyphenols, hordein, polyvinylpolypyrrolidon (I know what that is),polyproline, carbonyl :wacko: . I think I might just stick to brewing beer.

BYB

 

[buttersd70]

FFS do you have to be a rocket scientist to get ones head around the Proanthocyanidins, polyphenols, hordein, polyvinylpolypyrrolidon (I know what that is),polyproline, carbonyl :wacko: . I think I might just stick to brewing beer.

BYB

No, going that deep is not everyones cuppa tea. :lol: But something about brewing opens up the inner geek with me.

 

[drsmurto]

Nice link Butters! Haven't looked at colloids since 3rd year chem at uni. Brings it all back but would have been even sexier with lots of juicy equations..... B)

Geek? Me?

I think TB summed it up perfectly. Hard enough to get some of my mates to try my beer since they know i HB but hand them a glass of torrens water and the craft goes backwards another 10 years. When the more open minded mates look at me after seeing the clear beer and then smelling/tasting it and saying - I'd pay for that, jobs done!

I use polyclar (and extended ccing/lagering) for this reason but also to see just how good my beer can look as well as taste.

Nothing like getting a judging sheet back with the word 'bright' describing the clarity.

 

[bigholty]

Rack to secondary into a cube or fermenter that will fit into your fridge, and as the brew is transferring, put gelatine finings in the receiving vessel and it should mix in nicely. Over a couple of days this should drag the yeast and other lumps down to the bottom. Chill to as cold as you can get it, then use the Polyclar and let it sit cold for two or three days.

That sounds like a good plan, thanks BribieG. I'll give the gelatine a go first to drop some of the bigger stuff out, then follow up with the Polyclar. She'll be so bright they'll need sunglasses to drink it! B)

 

[dj1984]

might be a dumb question but what is racking off the lees?? i have looked everywhere and have not found a thing!

 

[buttersd70]

That means letting the pvpp settle at the bottom, and racking off it. This applies to polyclar VT, which is coarse enough to allow to settle. This is the type of polyclar that is available from the sponsers on this site.

 

[dj1984]

i knew there was an easy answer cheers buttersd70 AGAIN!!!

 

[Goose]

That means letting the pvpp settle at the bottom, and racking off it. This applies to polyclar VT, which is coarse enough to allow to settle. This is the type of polyclar that is available from the sponsers on this site.

I have a post keg chill haze problem I'd like to rectify on some carbonated beer.

Popular wisdom on this thread says that I need to filter after I treat with polyclar, yet it is also tasteless, non toxic and settles on the bottom. Does that mean I can just leave it in the keg and dispense the beer normally till its consumed without issue ?

Thanks
Goose

 

[fraser_john]

I would not leave it in the keg I was drinking, some of it WILL be picked up by the pickup tube. If you beer is already carbonated and in the keg, best method for polyclar would be to put it in, roll the keg around gently and then keg-to-keg filter it.

Some may have a different opinion though

John

 

[muckey]

as butters said polyclar VT will settle to the bottom. You only need to filter if you want to dispense on the same day as you polyclar. If you give it at least 48 hours to settle then you wont need to filter

edit: I agree with fraser about not really wanting it in the keg. it doesn't really bother me in tiny amounts but others find it extremely unpalatable

 

[Bribie G]

I don't keg as yet (Target August) but when I do so, I would most certainly Polyclar in the secondary / cold crash vessel, let it clear out then transfer to keg at that point.

If it's going to sit around in a container waiting for its moment of glory in the kegerator it might as well wait its turn in the cold crash vessel as in the keg. The only reason I can think of for adding anything to a keg is to make it drinkable quicker than otherwise, so we are talking gelatine or isinglass here, or adding sugar to carb it up so it can be served immediately on chilling to drinking temperature. Polyclar doesn't make anything drinkable sooner, it just prevents/removes chill haze so I would personally not add it to the keg but do it in cold conditioning beforehand.

Edit: I wrote it's moment of glory instead of its moment of glory, a sin that I regularly castigate others for. Another brain cell destroyed.

 

[buttersd70]

I tend to agree with John that a certain amount will get picked up by the pickup tube, even after it's settled. Theres a world of difference between transferring off the lees from an uncarbonated beer running out of a tap in a cube or a fermenter, and having it settle in a keg, then having it pushed up a pickup tube by the top pressure. I don't know for certain, but I would tend to think that it would likely settle, but then get roused again on the pour, because unlike yeast dropping in the keg, I don't think it would form a compact sediment, and would be easily disturbed.....

That being said, I've accidently got a good whack of it in a keg once in the past...it did drop after a few days, and there was enough of a yeast sediment in the keg to hold it in place and not come out noticibly (I'm a 'dip tube up off the bottom' kind of guy). But theres a big difference again between an accidental good whack, and a full dose.....

2c

 

[daemon]

Digging up a slightly older post, but I thought some people may be interested in the difference when using Polyclar. I've brewed a Lager recently that didn't clear up as expected and had significant haze after two weeks in the keg (@ 4c). Not sure if it was the rice adjunct, lower mash temp or S-189 yeast (or a combo of all!) that's to blame but I normally don't make Lagers.

Since this was for a competition, I wanted to ensure the clarity was spot on. Here's what it looked like out of the keg:


Colour was spot on, taste seems to be close to style (Aussie Pale Lager) but just not visually pleasing.

I let the glass warm up to room temp but it still seemed to be just as cloudy.


Since I couldn't tell if it was chill haze or not, I decided to try both gelatin and polyclar to see which produced the best result. I just used two 7oz glasses to do some test samples with before I did the whole keg.

Here's the result after two days:

On the left is the gelatin and on the right is the polyclar. Although it's hard to tell with my photography, the glass with polyclar was noticeably clearer.

And here's the polyclar vs a fresh glass from the keg (both at 4c):

I shouldn't need to point out which is which Just making up enough to clear up the whole keg now, I'm quite happy with the difference!

 

[BjornJ]

Today I ordered some polyclar from Craftbrewer as the local homebrew shop did not have it, looking forward to trying!

1: But do I have to now rip apart a computer at work to build a stir plate or can I just rattle it around in a bottle with some water? (please say yes )

2: Do I add this to the cube after a week in the fridge IN STEAD OF isinglass or IN ADDITION TO isinglass?

3: Can I add this and/or isinglass and then bottle a couple of days later or do I have to siphon off to another empty cube, then bottle?


I add isinglass after say 5 days of the cube being in the fridge, then leaving for another couple of days, then leave it outside the fridge for a couple of days to recover to room temperature and let off any excess CO2 before bottling.

4: Is this still a good practice, using polyclar or do I have to bottle cold to not rouse any sediment/haze kind of things?

Would appreciate any pointers,

thanks

 

[muckey]

I normally crash chill and gelatine to assist the yeast to flocculate and then after at least 8 hours add poly clar for the other haze issues and leave for at least 48 hours before racking to keg

2c - works for me :icon_cheers:

 

[DJR]

I don't bother rehydrating/stirring the polyclar, I just dump it on top of the brew in the fermenter. Works fine. Rehydrating/stirring is for when you have no time to let it mix and settle, like in a commercial brewery where PVPP is dosed in about 15 minutes before filtering. On a homebrew level it doesn't really matter. It will settle to the bottom and with enough time and cold temperatures will bond out the tannins/polyphenols.

I have a batch that came out super clear just using this method and a little gelatine, when it is carbed up I'll take a piccy.

If you sign up on ispcorp.com you can get a trial of Polyclar for free but it does take a little while to come. An 8oz trial pack of VT will last ages, at least 40 batches work at 5g per batch. I ordered VT, Brewbrite and the one that is mixed with Silica Xerogel, the product code escapes me at the moment.

 

[DJR]

Oh and if you're bottling and worried about rousing the polyclar/yeast from the fermenter, what i'd do is rack it while still cold into another fermenter and bulk prime in that, let that come up to room temp and them bottle, so the cake stays intact.

You know, all this technology trickling down probably makes it hard for brewers to win comps who don't know about it, i reckon a bright beer is worth at least an extra 5 points on a judging sheet

 

[DJR]

Here is promised piccies.

Brew for this one was >90% pils and a bit of vienna. Dosed with Polyclar VT at about 1020 SG then Gelatine at 1010 before it was kept in the primary fermenter at about 8C for another 3 weeks (primary ferment was about 13C for 1 week - WLP833 is quick!).

No agitation/rehydration of Polyclar - just dumped on top.

It still needs to carb up and get a head but you get the idea.

 

[buttersd70]

I had a conversation with Ross about using polyclar in combination with geletine/issinglass. Given that the two products are opposite charges, I didn't want to cancel the effectiveness of one out with the other.

The main point is that you want to have some seperation in time, and allow the first product to work prior to adding the other. Ross advised that it's best to do your fining first, and then do the polyclar. The main reason for it being that the pvpp works better the clearer (from yeast) the beer is.

I normally crash chill then geletine; then when the yeast starts dropping, do the polyclar. As Muckey said, several hours seperation. So I normally turn fridge on at night to chill, geletine in the morning, polyclar at night. Then either wait 15mins and filter, or (since I busted my filter membrane <_< ) 48hrs and rack to keg.....or in your case, it would be rack off to bulk prime.

But different people have different methods....this is what works for me. There are usually more than one way to skin a cat