Polyclar Users

[Steve]

Just a question,

How effective is PC without filtration and just left to settle over a few days and then racking off?

Cheers

BB

Boiler, as I bottle and dont filter I put mine in as close to 0 degrees, leave for 2-3 days and then bottle. Works great. No more chill haze.
Cheers
Steve

 

[BoilerBoy]

Thanks Steve,

I reckon I'll have to give this a go

Cheers mate

 

[Wortgames]

Apparently it helps to let the beer warm up a bit once you've fined it - this causes any remaining fine haze to drop out once and for all, then you can rack the bright beer and it should be immune from future chill haze.

 

[Aussie Claret]

Apparently it helps to let the beer warm up a bit once you've fined it - this causes any remaining fine haze to drop out once and for all, then you can rack the bright beer and it should be immune from future chill haze.

I don't think that that is quite right (but stand to be corrected).

The reason being that the chill haze caused from the proteins 're-dissolve' when warm. If you have a chill haze affected beer and allow it to warm it will become quite clear; it doesn't mean that the proteins have been removed though, which is what the polyclar is used for, it binds itself to the protein for easy removal during filtering or settles out into the trub.

I'm sure I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Cheers
AC

 

[Wortgames]

the chill haze caused from the proteins 're-dissolve' when warm

Not if they're bound to the fining agent, apparently. Maybe it's the reduced density of the warmer beer making it easier for particles to precipitate. I've heard/read this on numerous occasions, I'll see if I can find a source and post back.

 

[Jye]

Not if they're bound to the fining agent, apparently. Maybe it's the reduced density of the warmer beer making it easier for particles to precipitate. I've heard/read this on numerous occasions, I'll see if I can find a source and post back.

Wouldn't mind reading that if you can find it Wortgames.

My process and thought is to chill the beer to 0C and form as much haze as possible then use PC the remove it. Any haze that is left over will re-dissolve and be much less noticeable at serving temperature 5-8C.

 

[tangent]

i rack during lagering and add a dissolved slurry to the bottom of the 2nd fermenter and rack onto it to mix. then i leave it for another 1-2 days and rack off into kegs.

 

[Wortgames]

Darn, don't you hate that? I spent ages reading about Polyclar a couple of weeks ago, and obviously I've read and heard a lot of stuff about fining in general over the years, but I can't find anything now to quote.

The closest I could find on Google just now is this, in reference to isinglass, here: http://www.abgbrew.com/pdf/maturation.pdf

Although you rarely see it mentioned in the brewing literature it has long been understood by brewers and cellarmen in the U.K. that you always fine on a rising temperature. Thus, it is wise to cool the beer prior to fining by 2-3 degrees, then allow the beer to warm slightly while the isinglass works.

I'm sure I read specific references to Polyclar being best used the same way, but I can't find them now.

 

[BoilerBoy]

i rack during lagering and add a dissolved slurry to the bottom of the 2nd fermenter and rack onto it to mix. then i leave it for another 1-2 days and rack off into kegs.

tangent,

Thats exactly what I was thinking I would do, thus not disturbing the yeast dropped out during lagering.

BB

 

[Steve]

Is it possible to add polyclar to a keg thats sitting at 5 degrees and already carbed up? I forgot
Cheers
Steve

 

[Ross]

Is it possible to add polyclar to a keg thats sitting at 5 degrees and already carbed up? I forgot
Cheers
Steve

Yes, but you will need to filter afterwards - best to chill to as near 0c as possible first as well.

cheers Ross

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Is it possible to add polyclar to a keg thats sitting at 5 degrees and already carbed up? I forgot
Cheers
Steve

I use PVPP (polyvinylpolypyrrolidone) at work quite often. We use it a lot in sparkling wine when required. The vessel is under pressure and around 0 - -2degrees. So the answer to your question is yes. Just work out a way of getting it in, which shouldnt be that hard.

BYB

 

[Maxt]

Back to your earlier question Steve. I use the kenwood chef on the lowest speed with a whisk attachment. Goes around at about stirring pace. I put it aside and let it go for 45 mins.

 

[bigholty]

I haven't used Polyclar before but I have some that I'm planning to use this week and I have a couple of questions. (I don't have a filtration set-up so I was planning on using the 'couple of days of CC'ing to settle out' method.)
1> Is it useful for reducing things other than chill-haze, such as suspended yeast or hop-pellet particles?
2> If I just add it into the top of a chilled primary, is it detrimental to the yeast-cake if I plan to wash and re-use the yeast?
3> Is it more effective poured into the top of the primary, or mixed in whilst racking to a secondary vessel?

Any hints/tips from any seasoned 'Polyclarers' would be appreciated.
Cheers, Mark.

 

[reviled]

h34r: Can I put a flame suit on and ask why???

Chill haze doesnt have a taste does it? So why the big obsession with getting rid of it? If the beer tastes good, but is a bit hazy, why is that a bad thing?

 

[glennheinzel]

h34r: Can I put a flame suit on and ask why???

Chill haze doesnt have a taste does it? So why the big obsession with getting rid of it? If the beer tastes good, but is a bit hazy, why is that a bad thing?

Chill haze is a visual problem in the short term, but it does affect long term stability.

 

[Bribie G]

It's a perfectionist thing for sure, there's nothing like handing a rellie or friend a glass of crystal clear amber nectar with a perfect head and bead. To me it would be like spending weeks crafting a fine coffee table then not bothering to varnish or french polish it.

As to any 'health effects' of polyclar, its use as a clearing agent is only one tiny part of its repertoire. It is used in a huge range of products and processes. According to the Wikipedia article:

PVP is also used in personal care products, such as shampoos and toothpastes, in paints, and (old style) adhesivespostage stamps and envelopes. It has also been used in contact lens solutions and in steel-quenching solutions. PVP is the basis of the early formulas for hair sprays and hair gels, and still continues to be a component of some.

And even:

PVP in its pure form is so safe that not only is it edible by humans, but it was used as a blood plasma expander for trauma victims after the first half of 20th century.

Since reading that, some time ago, after adding it to chilled beer in secondary fermentation I don't even rack it off the 'lees' as suggested in the Polyclar directions, I just leave it for a couple of days then bottle straight out of the vessel as is. I'm sure if you analysed my bottle dregs there would be some Polyclar there.

Edit: I don't use Polyclar with stouts and dark ales such as my Scotch 80/- etc.

 

[bigholty]

h34r: Can I put a flame suit on and ask why???

You can! Normally I wouldn't bother with it either, but it sort of centres on question 1 a bit. You see I dry hopped with some pellets, thinking they would just sink to the bottom and then I would rack off the beer into the keg. But the pellets broke down and spread into a nice layer on the top of the beer. This brew is intended for entertaining some friends so I really wanted a nice bright beer - I'm trying to blow away that stereotype of murky, chunkly, 'brewed in a bathtub' homebrew that the untrained masses seem to have, and green chunks or cloudiness in the beer isn't going to help the image. I also like the idea that the beer will keep better for longer if it is clarified. Shouldn't matter with this keg, as there will be several people helping to polish it off, but normally it takes me a while to get through a barrel.

 

[Bribie G]

bigh, I had that nice duckpond green hop scum on top of an ESB paint-tin brew, a Czech Pilsener, as they put a fair slug of pellet in the brew. What I suggest you do is (time permitting)

Rack to secondary into a cube or fermenter that will fit into your fridge, and as the brew is transferring, put gelatine finings in the receiving vessel and it should mix in nicely. Over a couple of days this should drag the yeast and other lumps down to the bottom. Chill to as cold as you can get it, then use the Polyclar and let it sit cold for two or three days.

Then bottle or keg and that should clear everthing out that can be cleared.

Unfortunately gelatine, although it makes the beer drop bright spectacularly, doesn't help the sediment to solidify at the bottom of the keg or bottle. That's more of a yeast thing, and if you want a really good flocculating yeast try Nottingham. As one poster said in another thread "it clings like **** to a blanket"

 

[buttersd70]

h34r: Can I put a flame suit on and ask why???

Chill haze doesnt have a taste does it? So why the big obsession with getting rid of it? If the beer tastes good, but is a bit hazy, why is that a bad thing?

Whilst Rukh answered the question already, for the longer version have a look here

Although this isn't the really long version. I can't for the life of me find that one. Lots of lovely chemistry stuff... :icon_drool2: