Plz help w/ improving mash efficiency?

[lswhi3]

Could anyone with a similar set-up elaborate on their technique?

 

[Adr_0]

First things I was thinking of:
- Is your sparging temperature actually 77°C, or is that just the water? If you drop 5°C in your mash (down to 64-65°C) you are probably only back in the high 60's and IMO even that is optimistic if you have the mash tun open the whole time letting heat out
- Grain crush can probably be a bit finer. Coarse (with husks in tact) are good for sparging but if the endospermy stuff isn't broken up totally it's hard for the water to access these, i.e. hard for the sugar to get into the water

Is there a way you can just go back to batch sparging, i.e. dump a fair bit of your water in the mash tun in one go, give it a stir, sit for 5-10min, recirc and drain?

Stu's suggestion of hotter water (90°C maybe?) is probably the best way to drastically improve things IMO.

Not sure if you can go a slightly finer crush but have a look at your crushed grain at the shop if you can, and maybe get them to run it through at a slightly tighter setting. Or hook up with a nearby brewer who can crush your grains for you and give you some pointers?

 

[Adr_0]

And any way you can improve the sealing of your esky? Air gaps are horrible for heat loss. Not much you can do about wall insulation, unless you want to wrap it up in yoga mats?

At 69°C 60min should be plenty. Dropping to 64°C changes things a bit though: your alpha enzymes wouldn't be as active, and instead your slower beta enzymes will be taking over - if they aren't denatured. So you might be losing a bit in conversion efficiency even though theoretically (holding at 69°C) you should be fine.

So insulating the esky and eliminating air gaps will help a lot for a lot of reasons. Anytime you open it you lose a fair bit of heat too. A wall-mounted bi-metal thermometer would be good, but not sure if that's what you 'need' at the moment.

 

[S.E]

Yeah this is what I'm doing. Please explain

Do not drain the mashtun until you have used all your sparge water. Only open the ball valve slightly and let the wort run slowly in to the kettle over about an hour while keeping the tun topped up with water using your saucepan. Recirculate first as advised above.

Fly sparging is easier and better from a gravity HLT or pump but a saucepan or jug is fine just a bit labour intensive.

 

[peaky]

Hey guys,

So I'm using a rectangular/wide esky that I've modified into a mashtun for single step infusion.
Currently, I'm achieving about 55-63% efficiency, meaning I'm wasting money on grain and time on boiling down.
So I'd appreciate any advice on how to improve my mash technique!

Currently:
1) Pre-heat mashtun at 80C with 2-3L water per kilo of grain (beersmith calculation)
2) Wait for 70-75C (depending on how much grain I'm using) and strike.
3) Mix in grain over about 5mins to make a porridge
4) Aim for temp around 69C (temp drops by 5C in 60mins), add ice or boiling water to achieve (usually dead on with temps so don't need to add)
5) Close lid and cover with blankets, leave for 60mins
6) Drain the mash water completely
7) Use pre-heated water to fly sparge over the grain at 77C until achieving desired wort volume.

That's it.
Should I consider collecting the mash water in step 6, placing it back on the element to bring it up to 69C, and then mash again for another hour? Or perhaps my sparge isn't great.

If you want to check out my mash kit, here's the public album on FB: https://www.facebook.com/luke.st.stephen/media_set?set=a.10202069549245272.1073741828.1383251361&type=3
Clearly a student effort!

Cheers guys!
Luke

Steps 1 through to 5 are spot on, you're doing it right.

Step 6 is where it's turning to custard.

At Step 6 don't drain the mash tun completely. Slowly drain some wort from the mash tun into a jug. Return this wort to the mash tun, slowly pouring it in so as not to mix the mash up too much. Repeat this until the wort running from the tun is reasonably clear. It should only take a couple of goes. This recirculation prevents you running cloudy wort into your kettle.

Then begin adding your hot sparge water to the mash tun slowly so as not to disturb the mash too much. Keep adding hot water until there is a few centimetres of water covering the grain bed.

Then open the tap on your mash tun a little bit and slowly let the wort run out into the kettle.

Keep adding your hot sparge water to the mash tun at about the same rate as the wort is draining into the kettle, all the while keeping a few centimetres of water covering the grain bed.

Once you've used up all your sparge water, just let the wort continue to drain slowly into the kettle.

Play around with the temp of your sparge water over the next few brews and you'll be able to work out what temp your sparge water needs to be to get your grain bed up into the high 70's during the sparge.

I'm sure you will increase your efficiency by doing this.

 

[lswhi3]

I'm not sure what's meant by "sparge temp", so the water that I'm sparging with is 77C. I'm now beginning to think that the grain bed is supposed to be 77C during the sparge. And all this time I've been looking at set-ups with the boilers attached to the mashtuns thinking how the f do they make the water exactly 77C.

The water is at 69, and then it drops to 64 at the end of the 60mins. I'm already insulating a lot, so not sure if I can really improve that. Perhaps I could raise the temp to 72 so that at the end of the mash it would have dropped to 67? But I'm not too sure that 72 is ideal. Alternatively I could add some boiling water at 30mins, but that may overcomplicate things with sparge water amounts.

Can't really do much about the grain. Don't have a mill, and don't have a car so I can't really get around to use someone else's mill.

Wall-mounted thermometer would be amazing, but too expensive.

So basically I need to improve the efficiency with what I've got.

 

[peaky]

Grain and Grape are milling your grain. I've had them mill my grain before it's always been good. I don't think this is your problem.

Yes, you need to get your grain bed temp up into the high 70's to sparge effectively. To acheive this you will need to heat your sparge water to somewhere around 85 degrees before adding it to the mash tun.

You are getting your strike right but keep working on ways to keep your mash at a consistent temp throughout the 60min mash.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

1.. And all this time I've been looking at set-ups with the boilers attached to the mashtuns thinking how the f do they make the water exactly 77C.

2..The water is at 69, and then it drops to 64 at the end of the 60mins. I'm already insulating a lot, so not sure if I can really improve that.

3. Perhaps I could raise the temp to 72 so that at the end of the mash it would have dropped to 67? But I'm not too sure that 72 is ideal. Alternatively I could add some boiling water at 30mins, but that may overcomplicate things with sparge water amounts.


4...Wall-mounted thermometer would be amazing, but too expensive.

5..So basically I need to improve the efficiency with what I've got.

1.. Forget looking at other systems. You will only get confused.

2..Get a peice of polystyrene foam ( from a Broccolli box ) and cut a peice so it sits snugly in your tun directly on top of the grain during the mash. You will be amazed how much it stops heat loss

3..No...No...& No. Do not do any of those things.

4.. Wall mounts are a PITA. The get in the way. Best off to stick your thermo thru the top of your polystyrene cover. Works perfectly

5..Can be done very easly. You just need to put a few brews thru it to get it sorted.

 

[manticle]

While fly sparging can increase efficiency into the kettle, there are also more things that can go wrong. I'd batch sparge with enough water to get the mash to 78 or so, drain, batch again. Once you are happy with numbers and results, take another look at fly if you want to. I reckon it's your sparging method but I am guessing. Also a touch of calcium in the mash may help. As with all these low efficiency issues though, you really need to work out where in the process you are deficient before you can work out a solution.

 

[lswhi3]

Broccoli box is a great idea!

Also, batch sparging?

 

[manticle]

I'm on a phone but google will explain everything.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Broccoli box is a great idea!

Also, batch sparging?

Yes. Stick to batch sparging.

Fly sparging is more efficiant, but not much. And brings a whole lot of headaches like monitoring ph and other really fun stuff.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

.....google will explain everything.

I googled my feral neighbours.....no explanations found.....

 

[peaky]

Broccoli box is a great idea!

Also, batch sparging?

It might be worth having a search on youtube, I'm sure you'll find some vids that demostrate both fly sparging and batch sparging in homebrewing. It's easier to understand the processes when you can watch it being done.

 

[thebigwilk]

PH can also be a factor especially for lighter colour beers I always add around 2ml of lactic acid (you can buy from grain and grape) it will also help in the end flavour if you get the PH down around 5.5 it will be a brighter tasting beer and less dull.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I think we should concerntrate on his efficiency & methods first...

 

[thebigwilk]

High PH = low efficiency

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It can be, but I doubt it will bring it up by 10%...

 

[thebigwilk]

It can be, but I doubt it will bring it up by 10%...

And that's based on your personal experience ?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yes.