Plz help w/ improving mash efficiency?

[thebigwilk]

Good

 

[peaky]

Lol

 

[lswhi3]

How do you do the pH stuff actually out of interest? It wouldn't really be too hard to do a quick pH test in the water im boiling and then add something to reduce/increase the pH

 

[lswhi3]

PH can also be a factor especially for lighter colour beers I always add around 2ml of lactic acid (you can buy from grain and grape) it will also help in the end flavour if you get the PH down around 5.5 it will be a brighter tasting beer and less dull.

Also, if your buying from grain and grape you must be melbourne based? Think glen waverley and your water would be the same? That could mean I could get away with throwing 2ml of lactic acid in the water as im heating it without having to go into water chemistry

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There are lots of things that will increase mash eff.

You can get to 75% easy enough, but getting 80+ takes a bit more work.

A few of the things I found to get to 80%

Grain crush. Aim for 20-30% flour. Having your own mill helps. Getting the right combo of roller speed & gap takes a while, and different grains crush different.

Sparging ( batch ) with boiling water, stir, let stand for 10-15 mins and re-circulate. This helps rinse out more sugars

Moistening the whole grains before milling. This gives intact husks, which is great for sparging and aslo releases more of the kernel grom the husk

I played with acidulated malts....etc..etc but found it made SFA difference once I got everything else sorted.

There are a lot of variables and as everyone has different equipment its hard to give a cut n dried method.

If my mill gap was out slightly, (I usually ran 0.9mm gap with 2" knurled solid stainless rollers at 180rpm ) then my eff would drop by as much as 5%.

 

[TheWiggman]

I agree with the batch sparging sentiments. I tried this to start with and it is a piece of piss. You really can't go wrong.
With your original method, probably what's happening is the water was running straight through the grain and not getting much of a chance to soak up the remaining sugary goodness. Much will remain.

I think this is a good video and everybody loves to quote John Palmer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5J8S5nBdUc

I'd advise you to put pH and acid adjustment aside until you've got the core of the processes right. By all means ignore me, but you will still make decent beer with reasonable efficiency without it once you understand the mashing process and your system.

 

[S.E]

Steps 1 through to 5 are spot on, you're doing it right.

Step 6 is where it's turning to custard.

At Step 6 don't drain the mash tun completely. Slowly drain some wort from the mash tun into a jug. Return this wort to the mash tun, slowly pouring it in so as not to mix the mash up too much. Repeat this until the wort running from the tun is reasonably clear. It should only take a couple of goes. This recirculation prevents you running cloudy wort into your kettle.

Then begin adding your hot sparge water to the mash tun slowly so as not to disturb the mash too much. Keep adding hot water until there is a few centimetres of water covering the grain bed.

Then open the tap on your mash tun a little bit and slowly let the wort run out into the kettle.

Keep adding your hot sparge water to the mash tun at about the same rate as the wort is draining into the kettle, all the while keeping a few centimetres of water covering the grain bed.

Once you've used up all your sparge water, just let the wort continue to drain slowly into the kettle.

Play around with the temp of your sparge water over the next few brews and you'll be able to work out what temp your sparge water needs to be to get your grain bed up into the high 70's during the sparge.

I'm sure you will increase your efficiency by doing this.

That’s what I was trying to say but perhaps not as clearly. Step 6 of the process is clearly where it’s going wrong.

I would stick with fly sparging personally especially if you’re after efficiency. Try batch sparging for yourself also though and see what works best for you but fly is really not difficult after you’ve tried it once or twice. One of my mash tuns is similar to the op, I tried batch sparging in it initially but wasn’t impressed with efficiency around 70%. The same tun fly sparging I get 80% up to 85% if I mill coarse or barely cracked for a floating mash.

I would get gravity HLT ASAP though as jug/saucepan sparging is a bit of a pain even with a small batch.

 

[peaky]

Also, if your buying from grain and grape you must be melbourne based? Think glen waverley and your water would be the same? That could mean I could get away with throwing 2ml of lactic acid in the water as im heating it without having to go into water chemistry

So you're in Glen Waverley? I'm only 20min away. Maybe I'll just come and show you how to fly sparge some time, it's piss easy. I'll bring my pH meter with me. It'll only cost you a longneck :chug:

PM me if you're keen.

 

[thebigwilk]

Not sure about the whole batch sparging with boiling water, the rule of thumb is don't go to far over 77c or with the mash at any stage or you risk extracting taninns which can produce undesirable flavours and haze in your beers.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I would jump at that.

Get someone to run thru the whole process with you on your rig.

 

[thebigwilk]

Here's a water programme for the mash I downloaded and have had good success with,if you can track down a local water report and fill in required information it will help fine tune your brews. www.ezwatercalculator.com

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Not sure about the whole batch sparging with boiling water, the rule of thumb is don't go to far over 77c or with the mash at any stage or you risk extracting taninns which can produce undesirable flavours and haze in your beers.

You would be suprised that even though you use boiling water, it doesnt raise the grain bed as much as you think. I at first thought it would scold the grains and do wierd things, but if you actually measure the grain bed after each runnings you will find that that it is not that severe..

I made a lot of pale ales this way and they where fine. I got this method of another brewer who produced state championship beers, so it cant be that bad, or wrong.

 

[Adr_0]

I agree with the batch sparging sentiments. I tried this to start with and it is a piece of piss. You really can't go wrong.
With your original method, probably what's happening is the water was running straight through the grain and not getting much of a chance to soak up the remaining sugary goodness. Much will remain.

I think this is a good video and everybody loves to quote John Palmer:

I'd advise you to put pH and acid adjustment aside until you've got the core of the processes right. By all means ignore me, but you will still make decent beer with reasonable efficiency without it once you understand the mashing process and your system.

Yeah. With the pH, I think it is worthwhile at some stage and it does contribute to both beer quality and conversion efficiency (or at least time). Correct sparge temp and technique and consistent mash temp will give you solid gains in your efficiency.

From a bitter to an IPA I went from 55% to 73%. The 55% one I didn't adjust my water, I had air gaps in my mash tun (lost temp) and my sparging wasn't hot enough. The volumes, sparge technique and crush were consistent between batches. Consistent mash temp, hotter sparge and adding calcium got me am 18% lift.

 

[marksy]

Hey guys,

So I'm using a rectangular/wide esky that I've modified into a mashtun for single step infusion.
Currently, I'm achieving about 55-63% efficiency, meaning I'm wasting money on grain and time on boiling down.
So I'd appreciate any advice on how to improve my mash technique!

Currently:
1) Pre-heat mashtun at 80C with 2-3L water per kilo of grain (beersmith calculation)
2) Wait for 70-75C (depending on how much grain I'm using) and strike.
3) Mix in grain over about 5mins to make a porridge
4) Aim for temp around 69C (temp drops by 5C in 60mins), add ice or boiling water to achieve (usually dead on with temps so don't need to add)
5) Close lid and cover with blankets, leave for 60mins
6) Drain the mash water completely
7) Use pre-heated water to fly sparge over the grain at 77C until achieving desired wort volume.

That's it.
Should I consider collecting the mash water in step 6, placing it back on the element to bring it up to 69C, and then mash again for another hour? Or perhaps my sparge isn't great.

If you want to check out my mash kit, here's the public album on FB: https://www.facebook.com/luke.st.stephen/media_set?set=a.10202069549245272.1073741828.1383251361&type=3
Clearly a student effort!

Cheers guys!
Luke

Luke I have pm you a novel.

 

[TheWiggman]

Yeah. With the pH, I think it is worthwhile at some stage and it does contribute to both beer quality and conversion efficiency (or at least time). Correct sparge temp and technique and consistent mash temp will give you solid gains in your efficiency.

From a bitter to an IPA I went from 55% to 73%. The 55% one I didn't adjust my water, I had air gaps in my mash tun (lost temp) and my sparging wasn't hot enough. The volumes, sparge technique and crush were consistent between batches. Consistent mash temp, hotter sparge and adding calcium got me am 18% lift.

Geez. Wouldn't have believed it if you didn't say it.
Agree with "at some stage".

 

[Adr_0]

Geez. Wouldn't have believed it if you didn't say it.
Agree with "at some stage".

I really can't measure the contribution of each but gut feel is that it might be a couple of percent - a bigger impact on quality anyway. If Luke1992 is still not getting the results after a few more batches of trying, it is worth investigating. I think Peaky dropping around will help a lot.

Not sure what the water is like at Grafton but it might not be far off for most beers in which case 'great'. There will still be a wheat beer/pale lager or a stout that pulls the pH a long way from ideal and might end up as an anomaly with efficiency when everything else is going well.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Apparantly Grafton water is supposed to be pretty good. But I have never used it so I dont know.

 

[mxd]

how many batches have you done ? How long have you been brewing etc.. ?

 

[Screwtop]

And that's based on your personal experience ?

Stu's been around a while brewers

I agree with the batch sparging sentiments. I tried this to start with and it is a piece of piss. You really can't go wrong.
With your original method, probably what's happening is the water was running straight through the grain and not getting much of a chance to soak up the remaining sugary goodness.

Agree

I would stick with fly sparging personally especially if you’re after efficiency. Try batch sparging for yourself also though and see what works best for you but fly is really not difficult after you’ve tried it once or twice. One of my mash tuns is similar to the op, I tried batch sparging in it initially but wasn’t impressed with efficiency around 70%. The same tun fly sparging I get 80% up to 85% if I mill coarse or barely cracked for a floating mash.

I would get gravity HLT ASAP though as jug/saucepan sparging is a bit of a pain even with a small batch.

Agree with the above. Many believe fly/continuous sparging to be difficult, mostly those who have only read about it or are batch spargers, no surprise!

If you can get your HLT up above the mash tun then it's very easy to use gravity to run into the mash tun at the same rate as draining to the kettle to keep the level above the grist, until all sparge water has run in. Drain nice and slow, around 1 L/min. Believe me I'm a lazy brewer who strives for high efficiency, so my system was designed around fly sparging. There can be issues of astringency using all sparging methods. My system returns over 90% mash eff, without astringency so long as PH, sparge temp and volume are within brewing specs.

You would be suprised that even though you use boiling water, it doesnt raise the grain bed as much as you think. I at first thought it would scold the grains and do wierd things, but if you actually measure the grain bed after each runnings you will find that that it is not that severe..

I made a lot of pale ales this way and they where fine. I got this method of another brewer who produced state championship beers, so it cant be that bad, or wrong.

A very similar experience here, started out batch sparging 9 years ago and after issues of low eff was advised to drain the mash tun (first runnings) to the kettle and then to add boiling water for the batch sparge. Bingo up went the eff and no astringency.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

how many batches have you done ? How long have you been brewing etc.. ?

Lost count after about 200 batches..