Plz help w/ improving mash efficiency?

[mxd]

Lost count after about 200 batches..

that q was to the op not you , he's only been on for a month or 2 and if he;d only done a few batches my recommendation would be to ignore efficiency at the moment, as long as it's close enough to 60% consistently your recipe will still work

 

[JDW81]

Not sure about the whole batch sparging with boiling water, the rule of thumb is don't go to far over 77c or with the mash at any stage or you risk extracting taninns which can produce undesirable flavours and haze in your beers.

Decoction???

Tannin extraction has more to do with pH than temperature.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

that q was to the op not you , he's only been on for a month or 2 and if he;d only done a few batches my recommendation would be to ignore efficiency at the moment, as long as it's close enough to 60% consistently your recipe will still work

Consistency is the key. Once you get that then increasing eff% becomes easier.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Decoction???

Tannin extraction has more to do with pH than temperature.

Exactly.

Tannins only become a prob when you hit 88*c

 

[JDW81]

I'm not on stalk book so I can't look at the pictures of your gear, but out of interest what do you have in the bottom of your mash tun?

All the points people have made a valid, and well worth considering, but fly sparging requires either a decent false bottom or a well designed manifold to get decent efficiency. If you have a simple drainage system in your tun then fly sparging isn't really the best option. Batch sparging is the way to go for your first 15-20 AG brews while you work out your system and processes and start to build consistency. Knowing your gear is important, and how different aspects contribute to efficiency is also important.

Have a listen to the brew strong podcast on mash efficiency and they give a good explanation on why the manifold design is important.

You can get good efficiency with a batch sparge, and it is what I use even after having brewed AG for 5 years or so now. I run at about 75% total efficiency, but it took me about 10 brews the really nail it all down.

Best bet is to change ONE thing at a time and see if that makes a difference. Then change something else.

JD

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Not sure about the whole batch sparging with boiling water, the rule of thumb is don't go to far over 77c or with the mash at any stage or you risk extracting taninns which can produce undesirable flavours and haze in your beers.

Are you sure...

Who told you this....

 

[S.E]

I've got a false bottom I made out of a toilet/laundry pipe, see my FB link.

Ah ok, Just had another look at your pictures and you appear to be using a braid not a false bottom or manifold. In this case you will be better off batch sparging if using that.

If I was you I would take up peaky on his offer to come and show you how to fly sparge but ask him if he can bring his mash tun.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Something else to consider is your dough in water to grain ratio. What ratio are you using ?

 

[TheWiggman]

Ah ok, Just had another look at your pictures and you appear to be using a braid not a false bottom or manifold. In this case you will be better off batch sparging if using that.

I use braided hose on the base of my MT and I get >80% effeciency. I haven't heard the podcast noted above but you can certainly get decent figures with braided hose fly sparging. Better efficiency fly sparging than batch spraging in my case anyway.

 

[S.E]

I use braided hose on the base of my MT and I get >80% effeciency. I haven't heard the podcast noted above but you can certainly get decent figures with braided hose fly sparging. Better efficiency fly sparging than batch spraging in my case anyway.

[SIZE=12pt]Fair enough. I tried a braid in my esky before making a manifold and the efficiency was really crap around 70%-75% from memory. I didn’t persist with braid very long though to be fair. [/SIZE]

 

[thebigwilk]

Are you sure...

Who told you this....

Well tell me what is your mash out temp?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Whats my mash out temp got to do with it

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Fair enough. I tried a braid in my esky before making a manifold and the efficiency was really crap around 70%-75% from memory. I didn’t persist with braid very long though to be fair.

I tried braid and a copper manifold, but I couldnt get them to work for me so I ended up going false bottom.

Other brewers have great succes with braid or manifolds.

Either methods are just as good so its a case of whatever works for you, use it. There is no real rule.

 

[thebigwilk]

Whats my mash out temp got to do with it

read post 66 again

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

So I am gathering you either cant or wont answer my question to you.

Prob a mix of both.

Just because a method does not "fall" within your rule of thumb does not mean it isnt effective or doesnt produce great beer. Obviously you havnt used it, and prob wont, use it. So dont knock it untill you do.

And decoction mashes dont fall into your rule of thumb so there probably crap as well.

 

[thebigwilk]

Sorry mate not trying to up set you, we are all on the same page here brewing our own brews and enjoying them. In answer to your question where did I get the idea its not a good idea to raise the grain bed temp to much over 77c, it was from John Palmer and Jamil Zainasheff on the brewing network. As far as decoction mashing goes well that's very different because you are only handling a small portion of the mash at one time and you are using the grains when they have the most amount of sugars in them. The tannin trouble starts when you sparge with too higher temps and with a thin mash i.e if you sparge too long with the sparge water temps too high.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Which is most problematic with fly sparging.

I have had my grain bed at 80*ish ( sort of depends on the day ) at the end of my batch sparging. Getting to 88* can really get you into trouble.

 

[bonj]

When you hear Americans talking about sparging, they are more often than not talking about fly sparging. They seem to love it. Batch sparging is more popular in Australia, and from what I've heard, the UK too. Listen to Stu and Screwtop. They are amongst the most experienced and knowledgeable brewers on this forum. I have personally sampled multiple beers from each of them and they know their stuff.

 

[thebigwilk]

Cheers mate will take it on board.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Bonj makes a good point about how they more commonly refer to fly sparging in the USA. And a lot of brewers quote american sources.

It can be a trap.

Both methods effect your grain differently when sparging. You just need to be aware of the differences.

 

[thebigwilk]

Thanks for making that clear you have been very helpful.

 

[[email protected]]

I used to have the same problem but as soon as I got my own grain mill and started milling it a bit finer than Grain and Grape my efficiency improved straight away. Bit of a conspiracy theory but maybe G & G mill it that way so you buy more grain?

 

[manticle]

I'm sure they make tons of bucks from all that extra grain. John has a helicopter tied to a yacht with a lamborghini engine and is often seen in Monaco cavorting with high class escorts.

 

[GuyQLD]

[email protected], on 24 Jun 2014 - 6:13 PM, said:

I used to have the same problem but as soon as I got my own grain mill and started milling it a bit finer than Grain and Grape my efficiency improved straight away. Bit of a conspiracy theory but maybe G & G mill it that way so you buy more grain?

I'm sure it's far more likely they mill at a gap that suits most systems, lower efficiency perhaps but far less likely to cause stuck sparges.

 

[Adr_0]

I'm sure they make tons of bucks from all that extra grain. John has a helicopter tied to a yacht with a lamborghini engine and is often seen in Monaco cavorting with high class escorts.

Was that.... I think that was.. Sar... Ca... Saar..

No, never mind. Carry on.

In other news, it's not a crime to crush malt so that you get a solid beer and a safe - rather than stuck - sparge. Have never bought grain from them (can only fit so much in the back of a Lambo) so couldn't tell you.

 

[mxd]

you can ask g+g to crush it twice, tel em it's for a BIAB

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Its a fine line between a good crush and stuck sparges.

 

[bonj]

It's a fine, fine line between pleasure and pain....

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

There is nothing more painfull than a stuck sparge.

 

[mofox1]

I'm sure it's far more likely they mill at a gap that suits most systems, lower efficiency perhaps but far less likely to cause stuck sparges.

I was perhaps overly critical of the crush of my lhbs. When my mill arrived i did my own at a finer grade.

My efficiency went up a heap, but I also had a much slower sparge. Note: I probably also did a *better* sparge too, hotter sparge water with a 10 - 15 min rest which I repeated.

Next time you go, just ask for a finer mill setting and I'm sure they'll be happy to oblige.