Plumbing Connection Lesson - From A Plumber :)

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Thanks and welcome Wilbier!

Btw. how does NPT fit into all of this?


NPT is a US thread on the March pump it is 1/2 NPT that is exactly the same as 1/2"BSP that does not apply to other sizes in NPT

pumpy

Not quite true pumpy. Well in fact totally not true. NPT is National Pipe Tapered and BSP is British Standard Pipe. The tapered version is BSPT. :p

Further to this as has been (sort of) previously stated the thread form is different. BSP is 55 deg and NP is 60deg. Although both are infact still 14 threads per inch (pitch), the overall diameter of the 1/2" untapered threads is different by just over .25mm. So indeed the tapered version does go together with either standard female threads and seal with the help of some thread tape but there is a more pronounced mating difference in the untapered versions.

So short of donning a blue and white striped apron with the intent of not using the fitting again elsewhere- a NP male thread will not go so nicely in a BSP female.

As for the difference between trades ..... I'm an industrial designer employed as a design engineer designing plastic mouldings on a computer but covered under the metalworkers union..... so where does that sit? :huh:

Brent
 
Thanks and welcome Wilbier!

Btw. how does NPT fit into all of this?


NPT is a US thread on the March pump it is 1/2 NPT that is exactly the same as 1/2"BSP that does not apply to other sizes in NPT

pumpy

Not quite true pumpy. Well in fact totally not true. NPT is National Pipe Tapered and BSP is British Standard Pipe. The tapered version is BSPT. :p

Further to this as has been (sort of) previously stated the thread form is different. BSP is 55 deg and NP is 60deg. Although both are infact still 14 threads per inch (pitch), the overall diameter of the 1/2" untapered threads is different by just over .25mm. So indeed the tapered version does go together with either standard female threads and seal with the help of some thread tape but there is a more pronounced mating difference in the untapered versions.

So short of donning a blue and white striped apron with the intent of not using the fitting again elsewhere- a NP male thread will not go so nicely in a BSP female.

As for the difference between trades ..... I'm an industrial designer employed as a design engineer designing plastic mouldings on a computer but covered under the metalworkers union..... so where does that sit? :huh:

Brent

Nice one Brent,

Fortunately there aren't too many instances where we have to try and fit into an NPT thread. Short of importing a US pump that comes fabricated with a female 1/2 inch thread, then we go down to the local plumbing suplies store and buy a 1/2 inch male threaded fitting to screw into it and wonder why is don't thread in so well.
Luckily for us, almost all fittings from our shops are BSP, and fit each other nicely. Threads are also a nice place to change materials. eg female brass accepts a male poly - just don't screw plastic fittings too tight into metal or they can crack.
Obviously silver soldering copper together is a nice cheap way to join tube too. You can use expanders, or buy copper connectors, they cost like 30c each. Remember, if you wanted to do some silver soldering to join copper, then needed to get back to a threaded fitting, if that fitting were brass the diss-similar metals would need flux to assist soldering the joint. Yes is you are careful (or out of flux) you can still join the brass and copper, you just have to put more heat on the brass until it melts, and try not to blow through the copper tube.

WilBier
 
WilBier and all,
Thanks for the great thread - former IT geeks like me need help with this stuff and ok, whilst some get paid enough to call out "the little man from the village" to fix stuff, I'm mad enough to roll up the sleeves and actually have a go!! :ph34r: :D

Now, I need some advice - I'm looking for 5/8" BSP locknuts for my Rubbermaid mashtun - I need a couple to go inside the cavity between the inner and outer walls so I can fasten the O-ring, washer and locknut that sit inside the mashtun, onto the short nipple. Obviously I want a "small profile" locknut since it's gonna be a tight fit trying to push the locknut through the outer wall to begin with...

I looked around and didn't find much on Yahoo or Google - are 5/8ths BSP locknuts reasonably common or am I in a world of pain? :unsure:
I found a website (microfasteners.com.au) ...here... and they mention hex nuts in Metric, BSW, UNC, UNF, and nylon inserted etc. Is BSW close to BSP?

If you blokes know of a supplier of 5/8ths BSP locknuts, I'd be a happy brewer...
Cheers,
TL
 
TL
I think I read the obituary for 5/8 pipe and fittings a decade or two ago, it and a few other odd sizes got metricated out when we changed from lsd to a more rational system.

and are the ones to look for.

MHB
 
Bummer....When I googled, I managed to pick up some instruction manuals for aircon and marine installation docs that had 5/8ths locknuts listed, but there wasn't a hell of a lot of locknuts listed at supplier sites - might have to check with Bunnings for brass ones - it doesn't matter too much what metal they are since they're on the dry side of the mashtun.
 
Bummer....When I googled, I managed to pick up some instruction manuals for aircon and marine installation docs that had 5/8ths locknuts listed, but there wasn't a hell of a lot of locknuts listed at supplier sites - might have to check with Bunnings for brass ones - it doesn't matter too much what metal they are since they're on the dry side of the mashtun.

Hi Trough lolly,

Trying not to sound too much out of my depth here, but since my (current) main area of plumbing is airconditioning and heating and cooling, we come across a variety of sizes. With AC, every different split system has liquid and vapour lines running between the compressor and the coils. Always a (small) liquid line running from the compressor to the coils and a (larger) vapour line running back to the compressor. As it comes out of the coils, the refrigerant temperature is still really cold, hence must insulate this line on the way back to the compressor - or get nasty condensation in your plaster walls. I love going off on tangents.
The long and short of it is that still today, the most common pair coil in AC units is a 3/8"x 5/8" copper pair coil. so there are a large number of fittings to suit. In AC, the most common are 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5'8", 3/4" and 7/8". The largest I have done was for a add-on cooler and was an 1 /1/8" copper, but all are common depends if the unit is 1 HP, or 2.5HP or 3HP (horse power) etc. all use different copper pair coils.
But your original question about the lock nuts. Hmmm.
I am not an expert here. I know that BSP male/female iron fittings are a standard for threads, but am a little rusty with nust and bolts.
This is what I know.
Nuts and bolts are different. There are metric and there are imperial.
If you needed an 75mm M16 bolt, that would be a 75mm long bolt with a metric thread and a diameter of 16mm. There would be a metric (M16) nut to suit it. I think (this is all from memory) that a 6mm meteric threaded bolt has a thread spacing of 1mm, and the next size up, 8mm, has maybe a 1.1 mm thread spacing - that's not the point. The point is that every bolt diameter has a Metric thread, and a nut to suit it.

The thread patterns are different for imperial bolts. In a previous job, all I did was change rusted bolts over for new ones at an acid plant - fertiliser, not the backyard kind... All the bolts on site were 5/8" bolts (so yes ther are still common usage in Australia), hence needed 5/8" nuts. A 5/8" bolt is almost the same as an M16 (metric 16mm diameter) but a nut would never thread more than 1/2 a turn as the thread patterns certainly don't mach - I think much wider for an imperial pattern.

So still trying to answer your question, go to a bolt shop, and ask them for the fitting. They usually have endless kinds, and are usually really friendly. Take the fitting you want and ask them to find something that fits.

Hope I have helped.

WilBier
 
So still trying to answer your question, go to a bolt shop, and ask them for the fitting. They usually have endless kinds, and are usually really friendly. Take the fitting you want and ask them to find something that fits.
Or better still, find a fitter who has a set of thread gauges, verniers and a thread chart and Bob's your uncle ... hmmm, all those sly fitter jokes aren't half as good as some of the plumber jokes I've heard (er, yes I am a fitter & turner from way back :p )
 
Thanks fellas for the insights...
I'll visit the blokes at the local plumbers supply and bring the nipple and ball valve with me.
Cheers,
TL
 
Rowan if you going to our meeting this week I can make a nut for you at work, if you sure its 5/8 BSP. I have some brass hex bat and I can drill and tap the thread for you, let me know.


Stagger
 

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