Pitching Onto An Existing Yeast Cake - Tips?

[Interloper]

Hi All, I have a brew that will be ready to bottle in a week or so and I am wondering if I rack the brew off can I pitch onto the yeast cake?

It was a good yeast (Nottingham) and I used 500g dextrose + 500g Coopers brew enhancer for sugars

If I pitch onto this won't I just end up with a hell of a lot of sediment? After adding another kg of sugars and a can of extract it would be touching the tap almost!

Is there a way to preserve some of this yeast from the yeast cake?

Is it possible to recycle that nice Nottingham yeast or am I giving up and starting again?

Would love to know if others bother pitching onto an exisiting yeast cake and what they results are like....

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Nottingham is one hell of an attenuator so I wouldn't be pitching a beer directly onto the cake as I reckon fermentation would be finished in 48hrs with that amount of yeast and unless you have excellent temperature control you could end up with a hot ferment.
By sterilising a cup or spoon, a funnel and a container (small PET bottle)you could collect around a 1/2 cup of the slurry on the bottom of the fermenter and either pitch into your new beer or store it in the fridge up to a week and use it when you are ready.

C&B
TDA

 

[Interloper]

Nottingham is one hell of an attenuator so I wouldn't be pitching a beer directly onto the cake as I reckon fermentation would be finished in 48hrs with that amount of yeast and unless you have excellent temperature control you could end up with a hot ferment.

And a nice little flocculator too. Pulls a lot of gunk out. I have no temp control for cooling other than the brisk Adelaide weather I can only warm things up with my heat belt.

By sterilising a cup or spoon, a funnel and a container (small PET bottle)you could collect around a 1/2 cup of the slurry on the bottom of the fermenter and either pitch into your new beer or store it in the fridge up to a week and use it when you are ready.
C&B
TDA

Thanks, do you warm the slurry? Add a bit of warm water and let stand for 15-30 mins as per a yeast or just pitch and stir into the new wort?

Feels like this might be a nice economical method to extend the life of my yeasts...

 

[Interloper]

Oh another question - if I use finings would this affect the reuse of the yeast? I do like to throw finings through a day or two before bottling to clear things up a bit but I have no idea what that would do to yeast...

This site has a nice simple explanation on washing yeast - with pictures no less!

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

And a nice little flocculator too. Pulls a lot of gunk out. I have no temp control for cooling other than the brisk Adelaide weather I can only warm things up with my heat belt.

Thanks, do you warm the slurry? Add a bit of warm water and let stand for 15-30 mins as per a yeast or just pitch and stir into the new wort?

Feels like this might be a nice economical method to extend the life of my yeasts...

If you have fridged it just pull it out of the fridge and allow it to come up to room temp.

Once your over Nottingham try a nice liquid yeast. They cannot be beaten.

C&B
TDA

 

[Interloper]

If you have fridged it just pull it out of the fridge and allow it to come up to room temp.

Once your over Nottingham try a nice liquid yeast. They cannot be beaten.

C&B
TDA

Thanks. Room Temp it is - no prbs with the gelatine from the finings?

I've always worried the liquid yeast is too expensive - one of my motivations for brewing is cheap grog

You're in Adelaide? What brew shop are you getting your stuff thru here in SA?

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Thanks. Room Temp it is - no prbs with the gelatine from the finings?

I've always worried the liquid yeast is too expensive - one of my motivations for brewing is cheap grog

You're in Adelaide? What brew shop are you getting your stuff thru here in SA?

Interloper, i would add the gelatine after you have racked the beer off of the yeast in primary. Do you have a second fermenter or cube to put beer in? Do a search around this site and there is plenty of information available on racking, cold conditioning and using gelatine. Mind you, if you are using kits then the gelatine may not be required because IIRC they always come up reasonably clear.

I could sling you some liquid yeast when you are ready to try it.

Yep, in Adelaide. I sporadically use Grumpys and Brewmaker at Holden Hill. The site sponsors sell most of what is required if you want to get into advanced brewing. I guess you would be using Brewcraft stores?

C&B
TDA

 

[Interloper]

Interloper, i would add the gelatine after you have racked the beer off of the yeast in primary. Do you have a second fermenter or cube to put beer in? Do a search around this site and there is plenty of information available on racking, cold conditioning and using gelatine. Mind you, if you are using kits then the gelatine may not be required because IIRC they always come up reasonably clear.

I could sling you some liquid yeast when you are ready to try it.

Yep, in Adelaide. I sporadically use Grumpys and Brewmaker at Holden Hill. The site sponsors sell most of what is required if you want to get into advanced brewing. I guess you would be using Brewcraft stores?

C&B
TDA

I have a 2nd fermenter but it is always full of beer! I have no cold cube as I don't have the fridge space I'm afraid. This is a kit, so maybe I'll drop the finings this time.

I actually use a mix of kits from k-mart and misc supplies from the dude in Parkside called "The Jovial Monk". Good advice but expensive I reckon. Also his web site blows

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I have a 2nd fermenter but it is always full of beer! I have no cold cube as I don't have the fridge space I'm afraid. This is a kit, so maybe I'll drop the finings this time.

I actually use a mix of kits from k-mart and misc supplies from the dude in Parkside called "The Jovial Monk". Good advice but expensive I reckon. Also his web site blows

Jovial Monk

He's okay apart from the fact he looks like Rumplestitskin h34r: .

C&B
TDA

 

[Interloper]

He's okay apart from the fact he looks like Rumplestitskin h34r: .

bahahahahaha! More like drunken monk! He looked like he'd been sampling some of the strong stuff when I was in there last.

I'm in Payneham and yeah some time this winter I'd like to try some liquid yeast.

You reckon it is the goods huh?

 

[Dave86]

If you're going to reuse your yeast a few times, it shouldn't work out too much more expensive. If a liquid culture is $15, use it four times and its only costing you $3.75 per brew. This is cheaper than most HBS for a single dried sachet, and you can always use it for five or six, bringing the price down further. If going for more than four brews, you may need to split the first yeast cake and keep it in the fridge rather than continually reuse, otherwise she'll start to mutate...

 

[Interloper]

If going for more than four brews, you may need to split the first yeast cake and keep it in the fridge rather than continually reuse, otherwise she'll start to mutate...

mmmmmm mutant beer! But seriously: mutate into what?

Any thoughts on whether finings would hurt the yeast cake?

 

[boingk]

The yeast will start to mutate in that it will no longer be the same strain you started out with - it'll develop different qualities. These may be good, or they may be bad - but its easy to just pitch another yeast and start over so no big dramas there.

I don't think finings would hurt the yeast cake, but racking before you add them will always make a clearer beer at bottling time because you won't be sucking up as much of the cake [if any]. Also, you can then just ferment another beer straight away on the old cake!

Cheers - boingk

 

[Cracka]

mmmmmm mutant beer! But seriously: mutate into what?

Have you seen the movie Aliens h34r:

 

[Interloper]

I harvested a muddy sludge from a lager after racking it last night. Since it has sat in the fridge it has separated out into muddy water and solids at the bottom.

So I shake it up to re-use? Or do I just want the liquid? (Or do I just want the sludge?)

Thanks for any advice.

I have a Coopers Irish Stout that I am going to rack into another cube tonight and I am still thinking about pitching a porter straight on top (Stout was made with Nottingham yeast).

Will the porter ferment too quickly using the whole yeast cake? Is that really a big deal? I do like the idea of being lazy and not having to do anything other than whack a new kit on top!

 

[Hefty]

I harvested a muddy sludge from a lager after racking it last night. Since it has sat in the fridge it has separated out into muddy water and solids at the bottom.

So I shake it up to re-use? Or do I just want the liquid? (Or do I just want the sludge?)

From this point, this is what I would do (I'm not an expert so someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Give it a shake and allow it to settle for a short time (around 15mins should do it) so that only the heavy/dirty solids (the crap you don't want) settle and you are left with milky liquid (yeast in suspension) on top. Pour this off into a sterilised jar leaving the solids behind to be thrown out.
Allow the new jar to settle out for a longer period in the fridge (at least an hour but it can be left overnight if you're not using it immediately). If the solids collected this time have a dirty layer on the bottom and then a cleaner layer and then clear liquid, I would repeat the first process. Once you get one clean layer of white/off white solids at the bottom (yeast) and clear liquid on top, pour off the liquid on top and refill with sterilised water. (My first time I didn't leave enough sterilised water on top and three starters of US-05 were lost to infections )
This can then be brought up to room temperature on the day it is needed or you can pitch it into a starter wort a few days in advance if you need to build up the volume of yeast.
Again, I'm only new to this myself but this is what I have figured out from the airlocked threads and my own experiences.

Jono.

 

[Interloper]

I strained off about 2 litres and then got rid of the 'beer water' as much as possible, topped up with boiled water and used about 500mls each in 2 brews. Both kicked off like rockets...

I pitched another brew yesterday (Coopers Cerveza) using about 250mls and it seems to have taken off. Bit slower than the earlier 2 so maybe the fact it had a bit less yeast and was a bit older. Was bubbling slowly this morning with a healthy krausen though....

 

[Hefty]

Nice work!

Jono.

 

[Cocko]

Can you also, bottle a batch and just tip a newly mixed wort on the whole yeast cake in the fermenter you just bottled from?

 

[Interloper]

Can you also, bottle a batch and just tip a newly mixed wort on the whole yeast cake in the fermenter you just bottled from?

Yup, done that too. Threw a Cascade Chocolate Mahogany Porter (on sale recently at coles, what the hell give it a try huh?) on top of my Coopers Export Irish Stout that had just finished.

I racked the Stout, and mixed a wort straight onto the yeastcake. Kicked off in about 4hrs, still bubbling 7 days on at around 16-18 degrees - it's been down as low as 14c as it gets pretty cold at night in SA at the moment and the yeast is still powering strong!

It was a Nottingham Danstar if I didn't mention that already.

The other big bonus was - no cleaning between brews, just chuck it on the yeast cake. Things are very sterile so hoping that there is no infection worries by not sterlizing between brews. Saved a lot of time just pitching on the yeast cake...