Pintail Pale Clone

[Killer Brew]

Hi All

Looking for some advice on my attempt at a Karl Strauss Pintail Pale Ale style beer. From their website I have been able to confirm the following: Cascade, Chinook & Amarillo (dry hopped); ABV 5.3% & IBU's 47.

This will be my first brew on my brand new GrainFather. I have taken a stab at a hop schedule that delivers the required IBU's but am unsure if it will deliver the taste. Also interested in views on my mash temp of 63c degrees. Any advice appreciated.

Title: Pintail Pale Ale
Author: Killer Brew

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 22 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 30 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.036
Efficiency: 75% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.012
ABV (standard): 4.97%
IBU (tinseth): 47.88
SRM (morey): 6.83

FERMENTABLES:
4 kg - American - Pale 2-Row (83.3%)
0.5 kg - American - Munich - Light 10L (10.4%)
0.3 kg - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (6.3%)

HOPS:
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 12.56
15 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 16.52
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 8.28
15 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 10 min, IBU: 7.79
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 2.73
15 g - Chinook, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Boil for 0 min
15 g - Cascade, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Boil for 0 min
50 g - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 63 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8 L
Starting Mash Thickness: 3.5 L/kg

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale 1056
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Med-Low
Optimum Temp: 15.56 - 22.22 C
Fermentation Temp: 19 C
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

​

 

[razz]

They also list pale malt and caramel 60 for the colour at 15 SRM, you may need to increase the crystal or use something a bit darker. They list Newport hops in the initial description but then refer to Chinook instead in the stats panel. Regardless, it will be a tasty ale!
Edit. I was just looking at a Carl Strauss video on Vimeo and they also describe Newport, not Chinook hops. Along with caramel and carapils malts.

 

[Killer Brew]

Hmmm, thanks for that. Have the Chinook now so will run with that first up. Had missed the SRM on their site, will add a little Crystal.

 

[mxd]

looks fine,

I was in the midst of creating a recipe as well, as Chinook and I aren't best of friends, it was only going to be used for the the bittering aspect (first 30 minutes)

I was also going to attempt to get about 30 ibus in the last 20 minutes (all cascade) and dry hop twice (hop bag) once on day 3 (1.5 g a ltr) for 2 or 3 days and then when when cold chill (1.5 g a ltr)

 

[Killer Brew]

Sounds good too. This is my first experience with Chinook. Anything I should watch out for?

 

[Droopy Brew]

Excessive pine.
I have found it works well early in the boil but dont use it beyond 30 min these days- usually just at 60 min.

 

[Killer Brew]

Excessive pine.
I have found it works well early in the boil but dont use it beyond 30 min these days- usually just at 60 min.

Right. So I should make some serious adjustment to my hop schedule then?

 

[Blind Dog]

Personally I'm the other way round with Chinook and won't use it early as I find it harsh, but love it late and in a dry hop mix where it adds grapefruit, rind and a bit of pine.

I'm also pretty sure that they used to use a clean bittering hop and cascade and motueka in the late and dry hop rather than what's shown above. As their website agrees to your hop choices, that may just be my sh** memory.

 

[razz]

Whilst we are talking Chinook, I've done an Arrogant ******* clone with all chinook at 60, 20, 0 and dry hopped and it is great.

 

[super_simian]

I've never had a good Pintail -they always come across as a classic "American Stale Ale". All cardboard and no hops.

 

[Droopy Brew]

Right. So I should make some serious adjustment to my hop schedule then?

Not necessarily, it is up to your taste. I was just letting you know that I have found it very piney and I don't like very piney- you may love it.
I have talked to other brewers about this hop and some hate it and some don't mind it but any that use it have found a sweet spot for its addition in their system. 1 guy says 30 min is good in his system, another likes it at 20 and I like it at 60. So it can depend on taste and your system. Have a go and find out but be prepared for some serious resin flavours if you use it all the way through.

 

[TheWiggman]

Wowsers, I'm the opposite. I really enjoy the Pintail but have had one example which a stretch from the others.
I find it has quite a 'crisp', sulphatey mouthfeel to it which I'd almost describe as dry. A very smooth beer with just the right balance of hops. I'd be liberal with calcium sulphate to get the sulphate around the 150-200 mark. Otherwise I don't know how they get that character in the beer, and I wish I did.
Considering Cascade really suits my palate, and I don't mind Amarillo in moderation (otherwise as above I find it too piney) your hop schedule makes sense to me.

 

[mxd]

I think Chinook and Galaxy are ones where people have different experiences, i've tasted a chinook only and it was great, for me the ones I make just aren't ?

 

[fdsaasdf]

My house IPA is usually Chinook, Centennial and Cascade but I've done it as single hop for each... Chinook is my favourite. ~60IBU with hop additions at 30, 10, 0mins.

As for Pintail pale, it's a beautiful drop on tap at Karl Strauss brewhouse. Here in Australia I've had some bottles which were nice (around the time Dan Murphys first stocked them) but for the last couple of years those I've sampled seem generally quite dull due to age/mistreatment in the bottle. Like any hoppy beer it's not going to cellar well...

 

[Yowie4815]

Let us know how it goes Killer. I've been looking for a recipe for this for a while as I really enjoy this beer.

 

[Killer Brew]

Sounds like some mixed views. Will run with my original recipe and report back on my success or otherwise!

 

[razz]

I hope it's as nice as the original KB, I'm just enjoying one now. A nice drink.

 

[Killer Brew]

So drinking this one now. Am a little disappointed. Tasted it a week after bottling and the american hops were really shining through. A week later and now fully carbed but the hop aroma has faded away. Still a drinkable beer but all i get is a nice level of bitterness and a strong malt background. It is also a lot darker than predicted in brewing software (photo below).

This has happened now with a few of my APA / IPA efforts and am not sure where it has gone wrong. Am thinking to try again but get rid of the crystal from my recipe which was as originally posted. I was extra careful not to oxygenate once fermentation commenced so don't think this is the issue. Any other thoughts on how to get the hops to pop?

 

[fdsaasdf]

Sorry to hear you're not happy with the result. That looks considerably darker than the recipe suggests, are you sure it was 40L crystal in the bill and not something darker?

What was your dry hop schedule in the end? Did you do 50g of Amarillo for 5 days? What method do you use for dry hopping and at what temperature?

You could always dry hop it again in the keg

 

[Killer Brew]

Sorry to hear you're not happy with the result. That looks considerably darker than the recipe suggests, are you sure it was 40L crystal in the bill and not something darker?

What was your dry hop schedule in the end? Did you do 50g of Amarillo for 5 days? What method do you use for dry hopping and at what temperature?

You could always dry hop it again in the keg

Not sure if it was 40L Crystal as i had it invoiced as light crystal. Might have to look at that. I had some boil issues so only ended up getting 19L into fermenter. As a result the dry hop was scaled back to 40g after 5 days thrown straight into fermenter with gentle stir, held for a further 5 days at 22 degrees before crashing. Unfortunately as i bottle i cant dry hop in the keg.