Pilsen Profile from RO

[mattjm]

I think im a fair way off that point to date but hey its a passion not a money saving exercise.
Back to HBS for acid malt tomorrow then, was leaning towards just banging 5kg of pills malt into a low temp mash and see how it goes.

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yep. When PH accuracy really matters to you buy a decent one. I think I spent $180 with 2 bottles of calibration fluid.
Check the probe is calibrated in a shot glass of the fluid before each test. (Read all instructions and do it all properly).

 

[mattjm]

Do you find you calibrate very often if you ae checking prior to every test?

 

[manticle]

Pils.
Not pills.

Anal and I apologise for that but I have been very patient for a while.

Oxygen, yeast, cool fermentation.

Keys

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Do you find you calibrate very often if you ae checking prior to every test?

Now after having good pH testing and done lots of experiments and testing just about every stage of the process I've got it down now. I only do 2 tests for a brew now. I test the mash after its sat for 5 or more minutes, gentle stir and a small Vaurlofed amount. With the water profile I use it gets bang on PH 5.2 each time now. I'm stoked with that. I also test the filtered water on its own. Its 6.8 this weekend. It varies between 5.8 to 6.8. Evidently that variation doesn't make any difference to the mash ph.
I now use a water profile equivalent to 25% of the Burton on Trent profile and that's just for the mash water only. So end result for the entire wort will be something like 15% of the Burton on Trent profile. Why did I come to this profile? Toiling and brain straining to make a profile that has everything needed? :unsure: It seems to work perfect for the mash with the use of ~2% Acidulated Malt.
This is for Pale Ales so far but I will soon try it with lagers.

Added: I get good clarity and don't even use finings anymore. Just Whirfloc in the last 15min of the boil.

 

[mattjm]

Ok I finally have something I think is going to work:
Mash volume 17L add equally 1.7g of Calcium sulphate and calcium carbonate
Sparge 15L same again but 1.5g of each.
5kg pils malt and 150g 2% acid for a mash ph of 5.44.

 

[danestead]

You are going to need to add some acid (3% acidulated malt or thereabouts).

He can also use lactic acid. Thats what I use and is the same as using acidulated malt.

Personally though, if I didnt have an instrument to measure the PH with, I wouldnt bother dicking around with acids etc possibly making an incorrect assumption that you will need them.

 

[mattjm]

from spreadsheets i think what I came up with gets me in the ballpark.

 

[rude]

mmm I have been playing with R/O as well with no PH meter using Brun water calc

I have a meter coming hopefully a AD12 made in hungry thanks Danscraft trolled the internet though
& bought it through ServoVendi instead of Perth scientific

$154 through the perth mob same from the mob that make then ADWA in hungry 74 euro postage
e-mailed them & they wouldnt move on the postage option

ServoVendi $62 aus delivered havent got it yet going through spanish post fingers crossed

Last brew was a pale ale & used Brun pale ale profile got 137.7 ppm ca & my beers usually clear well
with time but with the extra ca bright within, well a lot quicker than usual , the photo is 2 weeks in keg no clearing agents except whirfloc at 10 mins then cubed



As Manticle quoted largers are better below 50ppm coming from Martin Brungaurd but triai
& error will prove this or you could take his word & also Black & Tan is switched on I'de like to
drink a few of his beers I recon

Do the google on R/O pils read up & good luck hope it turns out a ripper for you

 

[Black n Tan]

He can also use lactic acid. Thats what I use and is the same as using acidulated malt.

Personally though, if I didnt have an instrument to measure the PH with, I wouldnt bother dicking around with acids etc possibly making an incorrect assumption that you will need them.

Yep any acid is fine, liquid or acidulated malt. Using RO water the pH is likely to be a bit high (around pH5.6 according to Brun water), so I think he could safely add some acid even without a ph meter. Burn water or EZwater will help work out the additions and may be act on the conservative side and aim for mash ph of 5.3-5.4.

 

[mattjm]

I have Weyermann acidulated malt PH 3.4, Im going to add 150g to the 5kg of wey pils to aim for approx 5.3 mash PH?

 

[Dan Pratt]

Just as a side note, consider using rainwater instead of RO. Its free and neutral.

 

[SBOB]

ServoVendi $62 aus delivered havent got it yet going through spanish post fingers crossed

seems like good value... keep us posted that it turns up successfully

 

[mattjm]

Im also on the lookout for a good PH meter, so would appreciate an update also. Considering a couple from perth scientific and wondering if its a good idea to get a combo unit to measured TDS and use that as an idication of when to change filters/membranes.

 

[rude]

No worries will keep all posted on delivery

 

[Kodos]

I'm familiar with many sources for the calcium requirement (and none of the new info negates that necessarily - just that the need for additions is overstated and lager requirements are much more minimal).

I'm not at a point where I can say it is definitive as my understanding previously was also from authors such as fix, bamforth, lewis, de clerck, etc but some of the referenced info from martin brungard suggests the requirement for additional calcium may be overstated, especially in regards to lagers.

At no point am I (nor do I believe is he) suggesting calcium does not play a major role in enzyme activity, yeast function and flocculation, pH adjustment, etc.

No worries, I realise now I misread your previous statement in part (I thought you were saying calcium wasn't important, but you were merely pointing out that the oft quoted 50ppm requirement was perhaps an overstatement when it comes to lagers, my bad).

Nor was I disputing it - I just like geeking out on some of the direct references.

This looks like a topic worth keeping an eye out for.

Many of the original references (Fix, De Clerck etc) seem to be a bit dated now, so it's hard to find good new info, and much of it appears contradictory.

 

[CmdrRyekr]

Could you go to Pilsen and get a water sample?

 

[manticle]

No worries, I realise now I misread your previous statement in part (I thought you were saying calcium wasn't important, but you were merely pointing out that the oft quoted 50ppm requirement was perhaps an overstatement when it comes to lagers, my bad).
Nor was I disputing it - I just like geeking out on some of the direct references.
This looks like a topic worth keeping an eye out for.
Many of the original references (Fix, De Clerck etc) seem to be a bit dated now, so it's hard to find good new info, and much of it appears contradictory.

There's a post by martin brungard which has a long list of the specific references relevant to this.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[manticle]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/79792-pilsner-and-acid-adjustment/?p=1168840

 

[Jack of all biers]

Im also on the lookout for a good PH meter, so would appreciate an update also. Considering a couple from perth scientific and wondering if its a good idea to get a combo unit to measured TDS and use that as an idication of when to change filters/membranes.

Don't know about a combo unit, but I got my pH meter (LAQUAtwin) on E-bay for $186 delivered with two calibration solutions. Simple to use, compact and accurate. I got the pH 22 model (accurate to 0.01), but the pH 11 would suffice (accurate to 0.1) and it's cheaper. LAQUAtwin also do a TDS meter (Cond) and meters for Calcium ions, Sodium ions, amongst others. I went through E-bay, because to buy direct from the same mob was $10 more postage!!! (taking the piss really).

Made in Japan so can be trusted as opposed to other cheaper manufacturing countries nearby (no names, no pack drill.) http://www.horiba.com/fileadmin/uploads/Scientific/water_quality/Documents/Brochures/HIS/HORIBA_Brochure_PBT-12-2014A_-_LAQUAtwin_Pocket_Water_Quality_Meter__Low-Res_.pdf

I bought mine from Watertest systems in Sydney via E-bay (they charge more if you buy direct from them), but I see it's for $1 less if you want it cheaper from this mob http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/172061686951?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=107&chn=ps

I did a fair amount of research and found that for bang for your buck in the quality field testing pH units this one was the best quality for price.

 

[mattjm]

Any thoughts on these:

http://shop.fantasticfarms.com.au/index.php/products/water-pumps-test-gear/digital-ph-meter-ph-test-meter.html
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-Ship-pH-Meter-Waterproof-0-14PH-C-F-Replaceable-Thermometer-probe-Backlight-/322044126047?hash=item4afb53635f
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-pH-Meter-Thermometer-Waterproof-IP65-Multi-Points-Calibration-Tester-/181741762474?hash=item2a50a737aa

Leaning towards the top one, though the others seem to have the accuracy that I'm after at a lower price point. Was considering the hanna 9128 but would much prefer if I can find something adequate under $100

 

[Jack of all biers]

Only the top one seems to have much info on it and seems to be a good buy for the price. Like all things cheap it is made in China, but that does not mean anything really, but given they specialise in manufacture of meters, they will probably have it right. http://kedida.en.china.cn/ Just be mindful that with what ever pH meter you go for, if you test your pH at temps higher than room temp (25C) you will decrease the life of your electrode.

 

[rude]

Mine still hasn't arrived was sent the 22nd of April according to tacking Number
was the 12 euro postage option though so you would think slower
anyone with experience with Correos registered mail

Top one looks good accuracy 0.02 then again why not 0.01 not sure price is good

 

[rude]

Hey Jack looked at those LAQUAtwin recon they would be alright

Initially looked at the omega but they all look about the same sort of style ph meter price range

No micro biologist so just went with gut feeling bit of a punt really

Good point about the temp too

cheers Rude

 

[mattjm]

Im picking up a meter tomorrow and Im between that top one and: http://www.perthscientific.com.au/product/waterproof-pocket-tester-2/.

 

[Jack of all biers]

My opinion is that the ad12 would be the better buy. Whilst at $154 it is nearly twice the price it probably will be more reliable over the long term and when the probe does finally go it appears very easy to replace. I would check though how much replacement parts will cost you for each unit and how easy they are to obtain. It looks like you have time to think about it though, as Perth scientific seem to be out of stock today.

 

[Jack of all biers]

My opinion is that the ad12 would be the better buy. Whilst at $154 it is nearly twice the price it probably will be more reliable over the long term and when the probe does finally go it appears very easy to replace. I would check though how much replacement parts will cost you for each unit and how easy they are to obtain. It looks like you have time to think about it though, as Perth scientific seem to be out of stock today.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Sorry. Mobile phone double tap on the post button.

 

[mattjm]

Very pricey but may be of interest to some, id be lying if I said I havnt been considering it lol:
https://www.hannainst.com.au/product/HI99151/pH%2BMeter%2Bfor%2BBeer%2BAnalysis%2B

Called the guys today at perth scientific and I was really impressed how helpful and great there customer service was. They have steered me towards the AD11 being the most suited to my needs and warned me against the claims of higher accuracy ph pens being slightly "cheeky". Missed them today after getting stuck at work so a bit more thought over the weekend and make a final decision Monday.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Very pricey but may be of interest to some, id be lying if I said I havnt been considering it lol:
https://www.hannainst.com.au/product/HI99151/pH%2BMeter%2Bfor%2BBeer%2BAnalysis%2B

Called the guys today at perth scientific and I was really impressed how helpful and great there customer service was. They have steered me towards the AD11 being the most suited to my needs and warned me against the claims of higher accuracy ph pens being slightly "cheeky". Missed them today after getting stuck at work so a bit more thought over the weekend and make a final decision Monday.

Yeah the Hanna would be good for a pro-brewer, who can claim it on tax and would use it everyday for reliably accurate pH and Temp readings, but for the homebrewer it is complete over kill (price wise at least). The AD11 ($121 after GST) appears to be the exact same (stats wise) as the pH 11 from Horiba, which I've seen for $125 (plus $10 postage) on e-bay.

Simple to use, compact and accurate. I got the pH 22 model (accurate to 0.01), but the pH 11 would suffice (accurate to 0.1) and it's cheaper.