RecipeDB - Reunification Express - Viet Street Lager

[Fourstar]

Reunification Express - Viet Street Lager

Lager - American Premium Lager
All Grain

6 Votes

Brewer's Notes

60min hop is a FWH. Ferment @ 10deg and ramp to ambient (18-20) to knock off the last 3-4 points and for a diacetyl rest.

The original recipe omitted the 5 min hops but due to having an unexpected high boil gravity and excessive boil off i compensated with the 5 min addition. This was filtered before swapping.

Water Modification:
1.00 gm Baking Soda, 2.00 gm Gypsum, 5.00 gm Calcium Chloride

Mash: CaS04 1g, CaCl 2g
Boil: CaSO4 1g, CaCl 3g, Baking Soda 1g

Mash Profile
Protein Rest @ 55.0 C 20 min
Saccharification @ 65.0 C 60 min
Mash Out @ 77.0 C 10 min

Malt & Fermentables

%	KG	Fermentable
	3.5 kg	JWM Export Pilsner
	0.5 kg	Weyermann Carapils(Carafoam)
	1 kg	Rice Solids

Hops

Time	Grams	Variety	Form	AA
	10 g	Magnum (Pellet, 14.0AA%, 60mins)
	10 g	Pearle (Pellet, 8.0AA%, 20mins)
	10 g	Pearle (Pellet, 8.0AA%, 5mins)
	5 g	Magnum (Pellet, 14.0AA%, 5mins)

Yeast

2000 ml

Wyeast Labs 2124 - Bohemian Lager

23L Batch Size

Brew Details

• Original Gravity 1.052 (calc)
• Final Gravity 1.015 (calc)
• Bitterness 24 IBU
• Efficiency 70%
• Alcohol 4.8%
• Colour 5 EBC
• Batch Size 23L

Fermentation

• Primary 14 days
• Secondary 2 days
• Conditioning 6 days

 

[manticle]

Like the beers that inspired it but tastier.

 

[hoppinmad]

Hey 4*, just a question about your water treatment... what was the theory behind adding baking soda? I have been trying to get my head around water treatment lately and it seems that from what I have been reading bicarbonates are undesirable in pale beers such as this one.

 

[Fourstar]

Hey 4*, just a question about your water treatment... what was the theory behind adding baking soda? I have been trying to get my head around water treatment lately and it seems that from what I have been reading bicarbonates are undesirable in pale beers such as this one.

Looks like you have been studying well!

After chatting w/ a brewer in vietnam when finding inspiration for the recipe, he noted they have a small amount of carbonates in their water supply and the rest was relativly soft but not completly void like melbournes water. Wanting to replicate their streetside beers as closly as possible and assuming they dont use distilled or RO water i added a small amount (i think it was around 50ppm final volume into the kettle) to try and simulate their water profile as much as possible by keeping the alkalinity there and adjusting hardness as they do.

Small amounts of alkalinity are a non issue for brewing a light beer but as you have noted if you can avoid any alkalinity, you are better off. This is why i added it to the kettle so it would not effect the mash.

I hope this clears things up.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Fourstar, how did you calculate how many Grams of baking soda would give you 50ppm into the kettle?

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Gulf]

I recently spent three weeks in Vietnam, which included a good amount of time in Hanoi drinking beer hoi. I have a few questions regarding the recipe:

Who's bia hoi were you drinking/replicating? The bia hoi found on "backpacker's corner" (Hang Ngang/Hang Duong and Lan Ong/Hang Buom) were fairly variable, but stuff produced by the Bia Hoi Hanoi company generally seemed quite good.

All bia hoi seemed to me to be fairly light, maybe 3.5%. Did you get any solid info from your source about alcohol content? (Yes, there is definitely a rice component...)

Did you get any info about the type of hops used? They seemed familiar, but I wasn't really paying attention or trying to analyse the recipe. I agree there was very little late aroma hops used, but a 15-20 minute flavour addition seems right.

Bia hoi reminded me very much of fresh home brew, and I had heard it was brewed over a week or so, filtered and force carbed before being shipped. Would you think a low temperature ferment (16-18c) using US-05 might be appropriate?

Thanks anyway for the memories... good times, good times...

 

[Fourstar]

Fourstar, how did you calculate how many Grams of baking soda would give you 50ppm into the kettle?
Cheers
Andrew

I used the BABBS nomograph and set at my mash volume to work out my mash water profile. Then kept the salts static and then adjusted the water to 23L (final volume). From this, i then ramp up to my expected final volume water profile.

I recently spent three weeks in Vietnam, which included a good amount of time in Hanoi drinking beer hoi. I have a few questions regarding the recipe:
Who's bia hoi were you drinking/replicating? The bia hoi found on "backpacker's corner" (Hang Ngang/Hang Duong and Lan Ong/Hang Buom) were fairly variable, but stuff produced by the Bia Hoi Hanoi company generally seemed quite good.
All bia hoi seemed to me to be fairly light, maybe 3.5%. Did you get any solid info from your source about alcohol content? (Yes, there is definitely a rice component...)
Did you get any info about the type of hops used? They seemed familiar, but I wasn't really paying attention or trying to analyse the recipe. I agree there was very little late aroma hops used, but a 15-20 minute flavour addition seems right.
Bia hoi reminded me very much of fresh home brew, and I had heard it was brewed over a week or so, filtered and force carbed before being shipped. Would you think a low temperature ferment (16-18c) using US-05 might be appropriate?
Thanks anyway for the memories... good times, good times...

Hey Gulf,

The brewers i spoke to where form micro breweries. The hops used from my analysis where of a noble variety and spicy, so maybe tettenang or saaz or iso hopped w/noble addition. Who knows, they could have been chinese hops!

Yeah, street bia hoi is around 3.5-4% ABV depending on the source. My plan was to replicate Bia Hoi Ha noi (street strength) but when my OG sky rocketed i adjusted it to suit the export version of Bia Saigon (my favourite beer from vietnam that wasn't micro brewed.) As for the late hopin bia hoi, well there is some aroma but i dont think its late hopped. i get similar results from first wort hopping, very mild and subtle hop aromas when i use noble varieties in a lager. Perfect example is my munich helles. I would believe the Bia Hoi is still a lager and i also went past the brewery on the way to Ha Long Bay. I can only say its massive.

The best place i had it was opposite the museum of Vietnamese history (pre war) and geology museum. Served fridge ice cold and on CO2 (non of this hand pump oxidised stale stuff). i believe it was on that corner (street was 'pham ngu lao' from memory.) Sucked it back with awesome spring rolls! :icon_drool2:

Best of all the the beer tasted better than any of our locally produced beer and at 40 cents a pop... i was in heaven! :beerbang:

 

[hoppinmad]

Wanting to replicate their streetside beers as closly as possible and assuming they dont use distilled or RO water i added a small amount (i think it was around 50ppm final volume into the kettle) to try and simulate their water profile as much as possible by keeping the alkalinity there and adjusting hardness as they do.

Small amounts of alkalinity are a non issue for brewing a light beer but as you have noted if you can avoid any alkalinity, you are better off. This is why i added it to the kettle so it would not effect the mash.

I hope this clears things up.

Thanks, yes that makes sense

I used the BABBS nomograph and set at my mash volume to work out my mash water profile. Then kept the salts static and then adjusted the water to 23L (final volume). From this, i then ramp up to my expected final volume water profile.

In layman's terms... does this essentially mean 50mg/L baking soda x 23L = approximately 1g (1.15g) of baking soda? <_<

 

[AndrewQLD]

Thanks, yes that makes sense




In layman's terms... does this essentially mean 50mg/L baking soda x 23L = approximately 1g (1.15g) of baking soda? <_<

That's the type of info I was after, because I can't see how the nomograph gives you a PPM of those chemicals.

Andrew

 

[stew.w]

I used the BABBS nomograph and set at my mash volume to work out my mash water profile. Then kept the salts static and then adjusted the water to 23L (final volume). From this, i then ramp up to my expected final volume water profile.




Hey Gulf,

The brewers i spoke to where form micro breweries. The hops used from my analysis where of a noble variety and spicy, so maybe tettenang or saaz or iso hopped w/noble addition. Who knows, they could have been chinese hops!

Yeah, street bia hoi is around 3.5-4% ABV depending on the source. My plan was to replicate Bia Hoi Ha noi (street strength) but when my OG sky rocketed i adjusted it to suit the export version of Bia Saigon (my favourite beer from vietnam that wasn't micro brewed.) As for the late hopin bia hoi, well there is some aroma but i dont think its late hopped. i get similar results from first wort hopping, very mild and subtle hop aromas when i use noble varieties in a lager. Perfect example is my munich helles. I would believe the Bia Hoi is still a lager and i also went past the brewery on the way to Ha Long Bay. I can only say its massive.

The best place i had it was opposite the museum of Vietnamese history (pre war) and geology museum. Served fridge ice cold and on CO2 (non of this hand pump oxidised stale stuff). i believe it was on that corner (street was 'pham ngu lao' from memory.) Sucked it back with awesome spring rolls! :icon_drool2:

Best of all the the beer tasted better than any of our locally produced beer and at 40 cents a pop... i was in heaven! :beerbang:

Thats looks like exactly where i was, i remember being blown away by how many spring rolls there were on one plate and how big the rest of the dishes were





Cheers,

Stewart

 

[Fourstar]

That's the type of info I was after, because I can't see how the nomograph gives you a PPM of those chemicals.
Andrew

If you have a look on the right hand side of where you enter your additions, it has an accumulative total (ppm) of the salts. simply continue to move the slider of the appropriate addition until you reach your expected ppm

Thats looks like exactly where i was, i remember being blown away by how many spring rolls there were on one plate and how big the rest of the dishes were
Cheers,
Stewart

Yep, exactly the place! :beerbang:

Seriously, best beer and spring rolls ever. I love how their spring rolls where made with a cellophane type of rice paper. its impossible to find it here. In the cooking lcass we went to they said the thick ones where the 'cheaper' lower grade e.g. for pesants. The thin ones, even when making fresh spring rolls (rice paper rolls) you could eat them without any sauce. just very delicate to deal with.

 

[AndrewQLD]

If you have a look on the right hand side of where you enter your additions, it has an accumulative total (ppm) of the salts. simply continue to move the slider of the appropriate addition until you reach your expected ppm

It gives you a total of the breakdown of those chemicals but it doesn't tell you for instance if I want to add 70ppm of Calcium chloride just how many grams that is of calcium chloride, or am I missing something here?

Andrew

 

[warrenlw63]

After having just returned from a trip to Ho Chi Minh I'm not so sure why you'd bother paying homage to Vietnamese lagers... Pale, adjunct ridden I can live with. That salinated water flavour is just plain obtrusive. Yech.

Beers I tried were 333, Saigon and Hanoi. All similar (read; ordinary).

Could it have anything to do with their hard tap water? I could never get my shaving cream to lather.

Enjoy your Burton lagers. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Fourstar]

After having just returned from a trip to Ho Chi Minh I'm not so sure why you'd bother paying homage to Vietnamese lagers... Pale, adjunct ridden I can live with. That salinated water flavour is just plain obtrusive. Yech.

Beers I tried were 333, Saigon and Hanoi. All similar (read; ordinary).

Could it have anything to do with their hard tap water? I could never get my shaving cream to lather.

Enjoy your Burton lagers. :lol:

Warren -

Saltinated hey... interesting. I found Saigoin beer to be very clean, unobtrusive & SE Asian rendition of a Euro Lager. I'm not a big fan of 333 (thin/watery and suprisingly rarely sold comparitively) but hanoi lager was only good in hanoi. As soon as it travelled anywhere south of Hanoi, it was pretty much rubbish. Saigon was good all over the country.

I dont know what the water profile is like in saigon but the reports i was told from the local brewers in nha trang and hanoi was their water is quite devoid of minerals. Notably i did the calcium additions on the brewday i attended.

It gives you a total of the breakdown of those chemicals but it doesn't tell you for instance if I want to add 70ppm of Calcium chloride just how many grams that is of calcium chloride, or am I missing something here?
Andrew

Thats correct, thats why i just move the slider until it shows me the water profile i desire. Also you wouldnt be looking at trying to achieve 70ppm of CaCl2 in your water but the individual minerals themselves.

 

[primusbrew]

I found Saigoin beer to be very clean, unobtrusive & SE Asian rendition of a Euro Lager. I'm not a big fan of 333 (thin/watery and suprisingly rarely sold comparitively)

Hi Fourstar, I thought that 333 and Saigon were the same beer. Called Saigon when in a bottle and 333 in cans.

 

[Fourstar]

Hi Fourstar, I thought that 333 and Saigon were the same beer. Called Saigon when in a bottle and 333 in cans.

I had 333 in a bottle...

 

[andytork]

Fourstar,

Whats the process for 1kg rice ?

Seen lots of different ways. I am going to give your recipe a go next weekend all being well

Andy

 

[Fourstar]

Fourstar,
Whats the process for 1kg rice ?
Seen lots of different ways. I am going to give your recipe a go next weekend all being well
Andy

Just pop it in a rice cooker or pot and cook it down into sludge/overcooked rice. Once its cooked add your COLD dough in water to it and balance it out to your dough in temp. Once you have your desired dough in temp and volume, simply add this to your grain and stir up to achieve your desired rest and proceed with your mash as per normal.

You can let the rice cool and add it with your grain but i find it clumps up and is harder to break down in the mash this way.

You can ignore the high temp protein rest if you wish. I just like the idea of it for high adjunct mashes to try and help the starch access/breakdown.

Oh, ive updated the mash regieme in the recipeDB too.

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Protein Rest Add 7.50 L of water at 63.3 C 55.0 C 20 min
Saccharification Add 6.50 L of water at 79.5 C 65.0 C 60 min
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 96.1 C 77.0 C 10 min

Below is the beersmith output for a 25L batch.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=523039

 

[under]

Could you sub the magnum for something unobtrusive like Northern brewer??

 

[Fourstar]

Could you sub the magnum for something unobtrusive like Northern brewer??

Whatever tickles!