Ph Testing

[matti]

Have you water analyzed at you pool shop, or look up your catchment areas government analyzis.
Then read some literature like John Palmer or Gregory Noonan.
I hate the imperial measurments. If you got Beersmith or promash you can convert it to SI units.
eg, grams and mls etc....

Then you can do approximate adjustments with salts or acidulated malts.

Now I look forward to how PP is going to explain this...

Best thing to do is to ask yourself if its worth all the trouble and/or just make beer that suits your water profile.

I am lucky Sydney has got fairly soft water but it varies greatly with the weather and its a bit hit and miss here.

I tried to burtonize my water once and the brew ended little too salty so go easy guys.

 

[Screwtop]

Something that seems to have slipped under the radar is the effect of the malt chosen for use in your recipe upon the mash PH, preparing water is only part of the equasion. It's the mash (malt and water) PH which needs to be adjusted, I don't mean that you have to take a sample and adjust the mash PH each time, but you will at first to establish what is required to be added to your water for a particular recipe to achieve the correct mash PH. Then so long as your water source remains stable your brewing water additions should remain roughly the same for THIS recipe, but not for all.

Maybe this will be revealed in PP part 2. :lol:

Screwy

 

[65bellett]

Well thankyou every body for the info. I think the point has definitely been made that testing PH is important. I'm going to head down to the next All Grain demo at the LHBS and annoy the bloke doing the demo with a million more questions. Will have to see the process so I can incorporate it into my brewing.

65 B

 

[randyrob]

has anyone mentioned "pH for Beginners" by Graham Sanders???

LINKY

Rob.

 

[milpod]

PH,another reason to put AG off.

It can be as complicated or as easy as you like.

I pay as much attention as to ph,as Darren does to filtering.

Its not complicated to make good beer,its just the effort to do it.

 

[PistolPatch]

Your kidding me Pistol, thats all there is for part 1 :lol:

It gets a lot worse Mr Rook :huh: ...

GB Interview Part 2

Ummm... Part 2.... There seems to be a slight problem with my interview preparation and note-taking. It has nothing to do with the Perth heat wave or the 238 beers consumed during the interview - nothing at all.

Upon checking my notes at the first possible sober opportunity I found that those I could actually read (approx 5%) all pertained to things which on a sober read of Nev's great post above he had actually already clearly written about!!!

So for Part 2, re-read Neville's posts above!

(I see I wasn't the only one to get caught out though - not mentioning any names though eh Screwtop - lol!)

Anyway, was working out near Nev's the other day and so grabbed some acidulated malt. Could be a bit of fun. Just have to remember to use less in my schwartz and more in my lighter coloured beers. Will keep some acid handy though for my first brews until I get it right. (I think Neville said that for beginners like me, if you can get your mash pH right in the first ten minutes then that is a great start. I'll aim for that!

Suffice to say there will be no Part 3

Might have a few more questions for you though Nev.


Pat

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

It gets a lot worse Mr Rook :huh: ...

GB Interview Part 2

Ummm... Part 2.... There seems to be a slight problem with my interview preparation and note-taking. It has nothing to do with the Perth heat wave or the 238 beers consumed during the interview - nothing at all.

Upon checking my notes at the first possible sober opportunity I found that those I could actually read (approx 5%) all pertained to things which on a sober read of Nev's great post above he had actually already clearly written about!!!

So for Part 2, re-read Neville's posts above!

(I see I wasn't the only one to get caught out though - not mentioning any names though eh Screwtop - lol!)

Anyway, was working out near Nev's the other day and so grabbed some acidulated malt. Could be a bit of fun. Just have to remember to use less in my schwartz and more in my lighter coloured beers. Will keep some acid handy though for my first brews until I get it right. (I think Neville said that for beginners like me, if you can get your mash pH right in the first ten minutes then that is a great start. I'll aim for that!

Suffice to say there will be no Part 3

Might have a few more questions for you though Nev.


Pat

More than happy to reply when "Top Gear is NOT on".Ie Mondays are out.As for getting the pH right in the first 10 minutes, unless you can work the recipe chemisrty out prior its going to take a few brews to refine.Start at 2% acidulated and work from there.Cant wait to try a Lager from a APA man.Spitting amarillo. :lol:
GB

 

[PistolPatch]

Couple of other things...

Nice link randy!

I agree with milpod's post above to a large degree. I've brewed heaps of ales with and without adjusting ph. Have also tasted plenty of others and in both cases have never noticed a difference. I think for most beginners, if they are brewing ales, there are other more important things to concentrate on than pH. For lager and pilsner brewers, this subject though I imagine should be quite a high priority.

As milpod said though, having no knowledge of pH is certainly not a reason to put off doing your first AG.

For the novice ale brewer, getting the pH right is also not necessarily going to solve some problems that beginners or novices might face. For example, the slight haze I have been getting in recent beers I know for sure, is not due to pH. (Sorry matti! I think it is a combination of two other more basic things which I'll know for sure on my next brew. Will let you know mate.)

In saying all the above though, it's not very hard for a beginner to buy a bit of citric acid from the supermarket and some pH paper and start playing around with pH a bit. As they travel along, they could change their acids or start using acidulated malt etc.

Like the rook, this thread is great for me to read as I'm at a stage where I want to learn just a little bit more stuff about pH.

The way people are writing here so far seems to be of great value but what do they say? "When the student is ready the master will appear."

Think I, for one, am going to have a heap more questions for this thread.

 

[PistolPatch]

Sorry, missed your post Nev!

Got 2 lagers coming up for you. If they turn out crappy, I will blame the fact that I don't have a stash of your special water. After all, I'll be using your recipe and advice. If they are great then I think I should take full credit!

Please supply me with a lager recipe that contains amarillo.


Pat

P.S. Dunno about these lagers and pilsners though. I mean having to wait months for a beer? This one fact alone may well make it impossible for ME at least to ever know if I actually brewed a good one.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Sorry, missed your post Nev!

Got 2 lagers coming up for you. If they turn out crappy, I will blame the fact that I don't have a stash of your special water. After all, I'll be using your recipe and advice. If they are great then I think I should take full credit!

Please supply me with a lager recipe that contains amarillo.


Pat

P.S. Dunno about these lagers and pilsners though. I mean having to wait months for a beer? This one fact alone may well make it impossible for ME at least to ever know if I actually brewed a good one.

Amarillo in a lager will be good! Keep it in the back ground. Its just not to my tastes.PP you will know when you have brewed a good one.Then I will be around for a taste.I will think about % and let you know. :huh:
GB

 

[kook]

has anyone mentioned "pH for Beginners" by Graham Sanders???

LINKY

Rob.

John Palmer explains it really well in How To Brew too. Explaining how to adjust your pH either using salts or acid based on the properties of your water. In many cases you can work out the properties using pool testing equipment too.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

John Palmer explains it really well in How To Brew too. Explaining how to adjust your pH either using salts or acid based on the properties of your water. In many cases you can work out the properties using pool testing equipment too.

Kook A swim and test your pH at the same time Shallow I know :lol: .Sorry in advance. I could not resist.
GB

 

[PistolPatch]

John Palmer explains it really well in How To Brew too.

Sorry Kook old son! Don't agree with you on this for beginners.

Just had a look at this part of How to Brew and if a beginner isn't bored or confused by the end of the third paragraph then they must have a science background or something.

I've got a fair few AG's under my belt now and that section of Palmer had me sticking matchsticks in my eyes fairly quickly. Much prefer the explanations and links above.

I think How to Brew is recommended to beginners and novices way too much. There are far better books for beginners and novices which unfortunately are rarely recommended.

Maybe Palmer has something simpler later in that chapter - I'll go and have a look but there are few beginners or novices who would bother going that far and if they did their head would be spinning.

I like your library though mate!
Pat

 

[goatherder]

Sorry PP, I have to disagree with you here.

Whilst the info posted in this thread is good, I feel Palmer is the be-all and end-all of brewing pH. Residual alkalinity is where it's at and he's the only popular brewing author to cover it properly.

I probably agree with you that Palmer's material isn't suitable for beginners but neither is dicking with your mash pH. Forget about mash pH if you are a beginner, you'll know when you need to learn about it. When you get to that stage, read Palmer.

Mash pH is nowhere near as important as dialling in your gear, hitting your temps and gravities consistently and learning how to formulate recipes and ferment properly.

 

[TidalPete]

Patski,


:icon_offtopic: Way off-topic I'm sure(?) but it's time for A Clean Start mate. :beerbang:

Give your old love (BIAB) the Big Shove & get serious about all-grain now that you have the experience & the knowhow.
Everyone on this site is much appreciative of your efforts to bring about BIAB which, I am sure you will agree, is meant to be an intermediate step between K&K & AG.

Probably had too much of my Scottish ATM but you really need to move on, and on, and on, Ad Infinitum.
There is always a new horizon mate.

I am preparing for all the flack on this ---- Putting on flamesuit, bulletproof/bombproof vest, getting into the bunker, etc, etc. But I am not going to reply. so Beers & Cheers to you all and happy brewing :icon_cheers:


TP :beer:

 

[kook]

Sorry Kook old son! Don't agree with you on this for beginners.

Just had a look at this part of How to Brew and if a beginner isn't bored or confused by the end of the third paragraph then they must have a science background or something.

I've got a fair few AG's under my belt now and that section of Palmer had me sticking matchsticks in my eyes fairly quickly. Much prefer the explanations and links above.

Everyone is a beginner on a certain subject at some point.

I was a beginner on the subject of mash pH before I read it. In my opinion he explains the concept really well, and gives formulas that actually work. Printing out the scales really helps to understand too IMO.

I don't have a science background, but think that he has done a very good job of explaining a reasonable complex aspect of brewing in clear detail.

edit - I've just read through all the above info, and all of it seems like trial-and-error additions of acid or sauermalz ? This is all very good if you brew the same recipe every single time, but otherwise useless. The amount of acid you use to adjust your water for a pilsner is not the same as the amount you use for a stout. It's not about adjusting the pH of the water either. Just because your water is pH 8 doesn't mean that it won't buffer down to the ideal range in the mash. Also, I'd personally avoid citric acid in your beer unless you're making a wit or similar.

 

[PistolPatch]

Look out Pete - I'm coming to get you! You just wait until Nev tastes my BIAB lagers!!!

LOL
Pat

P.S. Even Nev couldn't see a problem with BIAB apart from not re-circulating your wort which is something that only fly-sparging will do so there you go you old son!!! And there are disadvantages to re-circulating if your pH and temp aren't right - so there

 

[Batz]

So who uses that 5.2 stuff?
And if you do have you done readings before and after adding it?

Batz

 

[kook]

So who uses that 5.2 stuff?
And if you do have you done readings before and after adding it?

Batz

I use it (though I only use around 1/3 of the suggested amount). I've tried very similar mashes (all pilsner, just different gravities) with and without it. I found I was well within the range without (5.4) but that the 5.2 did exactly as intended, bringing the mash to 5.2.

 

[TidalPete]

Look out Pete - I'm coming to get you! You just wait until Nev tastes my BIAB lagers!!!

LOL
Pat

P.S. Even Nev couldn't see a problem with BIAB apart from not re-circulating your wort which is something that only fly-sparging will do so there you go you old son!!! And there are disadvantages to re-circulating if your pH and temp aren't right - so there

I stand corrected Pat.

For your own goo ---- Hey! wait on! I am not replying to all this. :lol:

TP :beer: