Ph 5.2 Question

[Enerjex]

Hi all, I just got a tub of this new wizbang PH 5.2 stabilizer powder. I've added 1/3 tbs to my 7 litres of mash water. Does this only effect the mash or should I add the remainder to make up a tbs (so an extra 2/3tbs) to the water I use to top the fermenter up to 23 litres?

 

[Jye]

Enerjex, its really only needed in the mash to correct the pH but the effect caries over to the boil and the constant pH will give more uniform hop utilisation between batches.

There have been some post on the greenboard and other forums about using only half the amount if your water isnt really hard or soft. Ive been doing this (5g or half table spoon) and the mash pH has still been spot on.

 

[Enerjex]

does it effect fermentation though jye? my situation is that i'm using a 12 litre stockpot for partials. my mash is 7 litres and my boil is 10 litres. i top it up to 22 litres in the fermenter. do i need to treat the tap water i add to the fermenter to top it up as well?

 

[Ross]

does it effect fermentation though jye? my situation is that i'm using a 12 litre stockpot for partials. my mash is 7 litres and my boil is 10 litres. i top it up to 22 litres in the fermenter. do i need to treat the tap water i add to the fermenter to top it up as well?

No Enerjex, just your mash water, nothing else

Cheers Ross

 

[Jye]

I wouldnt worry about the top up water. There is a good chance that there is still enough 5.2 in solution to buffer it down.

Im not sure what the optimal wort pH for yeast is, maybe someone else can jump in?

 

[AndrewQLD]

I wouldnt worry about the top up water. There is a good chance that there is still enough 5.2 in solution to buffer it down.

Im not sure what the optimal wort pH for yeast is, maybe someone else can jump in?

Jye,
From what I have read a typical brew will start with ph levels similar to this.
+/- 0.2
water 7
mash 5.6
post boil 5.4
end of fermentation 4
The ideal PH for yeast growth is between 4 and 6 ph, preferably <5.3. During fermentation the PH levels can get as low as 4.2 and at the end of fermentation can be as low as 4. As an aside, yeast washing is usually done at ph 2.2 a level where most bacteria is killed but yeast can still survive. I am not sure what the upper tolerances for yeast are but the highr your ph level goes the incidence for bacteria infection increases.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[colinw]

Jumping in at the end of this thread ...

I'm clean out of phosphoric acid, and am considering trying the Five Star pH 5.2 stabiliser listed on Ross' site.

It sounds like the ideal product for use with the pH 7.9 or so Brisbane town supply. I have always needed to use a bit of phosphoric acid in my mash (pale beers only) and sparge to stop the dreaded tannin extraction. I don't think I'd need very much in the mash - a ml or so of phosphoric in every 15 litres does the trick.

The only concern I have is whether the buffering effect will survive the boil and persist into the fermenting wort. During fermentation the pH is supposed to drop down to the low 4 range - and I imagine if it buffered at 5.2 it would be a bad thing (tm).

Can anyone using this product comment?

cheers,
Colin

 

[Jye]

The only concern I have is whether the buffering effect will survive the boil and persist into the fermenting wort. During fermentation the pH is supposed to drop down to the low 4 range - and I imagine if it buffered at 5.2 it would be a bad thing (tm).

Can anyone using this product comment?

cheers,
Colin

I dont know Colin, if you have a pH meter I can bring along a few beer to the next meeting for testing.

 

[Jye]

Colin this is the best I could find and it appear that it will not effect the fermentation pH, but Im not very confident in their replies. LINK

I also emailed Charlie Talley of Five Star Chemicals and will post the response.

Cheers
Jye

 

[colinw]

Thanks Jye, much appreciated. --Col

 

[mfdes]

I brew with rainwater (no reticulated water supply where we are) which I assume is next to mineral-free, and have only ever bothered to correct water chemistry for specific styles such as English pale ales.
I have two issues: My mash times seem much longer than usual to achieve conversion, compared to other people using the same grain bills/temperatures, and percieved bitterness levels in my beer always seem lower than I aim for.
Since my water would have no calcium to speak of, I was wondering whether to use pH 5.2 adjuster or just add a bit of gypsum. I have both. I would like to know about people's experiences as I have heard conflicting advice about the pH5.2 product: some say use it conservatively or you can get a salty, minerally taste in the finished brew. Others say they never use anything else and highly recommend it.

Any thoughts?

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Hi mfdes,

Here in Melbourne the water is pretty soft too ( probably not as soft as rain water thought ).

One of the guys from my home brew club wrote a good water treatment article that cover adjustments for soft water.

Mostly advocated adding CaCl to increase the Calcium level and reduce pH in mash/sparge water.

Cheers

Chris

 

[Stuster]

I'd say add something with calcium in. That'll help with your mash times and possibly aid with fermentation and clearing as well. There are so many possible additions, but I'd start by using gypsum for hoppy beers, calcium chloride for maltier beers, and chalk for darker beers. AFAIK, 5.2 is more designed for dealing with harder waters. :huh:

Do you get clear beers BTW?

 

[Hogan]

One of the guys from my home brew club wrote a good water treatment article that cover adjustments for soft water.

Hey Chris - read a copy of that article a week back - your's seems to be an updated version - a great explanation of water treatment and quantities to use.

mfdes - I am going to use 5.2 in my next brew this weekend to adjust the tank water. It is suggested this should be used in conjunction with cal.sulp and cal.chl - 5.2 drops the pH and calcium adds the salts.

edit: The blurb on the 5.2 container says to use a tablespoon in 23lts. but you would do better to measure it out at 11gms.




Cheers, Hoges.

 

[Ross]

Hogan,

Guys in Brisbane are using just a teaspoon of ph5.2 to get perfect mash ph. So worth playing around with, as it's a big saving.

cheers...

 

[Hogan]

Hogan,

Guys in Brisbane are using just a teaspoon of ph5.2 to get perfect mash ph. So worth playing around with, as it's a big saving.

cheers...

Yes Ross - after you mentioned that the other day I weighed the contents of a tablespoon and it was around 22 gms A good heaped teaspoon is around 7gms so it is worth starting off toward the bottom of the scale and doing a test.


Cheers, Hoges.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

You could also use some Weyermann acidulated malt in your grain bill.I use approx 2-3% of my grain bill with Perth water and get very close to 5.2 pH but it depends on the recipe style.Some adjustment is nesessary up to 5%.And of course because your not adding a foreign chemical it complies with the German purity laws if thats a concern.Any one have an Idea whats in the 5.2 Buffer?Id be interested to see how it operates on a chemistry basis.Either ways gets the same result.I prefer the Acidulated malt.

Cheers Gryphon Brewing

 

[Batz]

You could also use some Weyermann acidulated malt in your grain bill.I use approx 2-3% of my grain bill with Perth water and get very close to 5.2 pH but it depends on the recipe style.Some adjustment is nesessary up to 5%.And of course because your not adding a foreign chemical it complies with the German purity laws if thats a concern.Any one have an Idea whats in the 5.2 Buffer?Id be interested to see how it operates on a chemistry basis.Either ways gets the same result.I prefer the Acidulated malt.

Cheers Gryphon Brewing

I am with you,part of the reason I brew is to keep all the chemicals and crap out of my beer.
When I started AG brewing none of this stuff was used,now it seems HBers are using all sorts of things,filters,polycar,5.2 buffer? That the same as yellow cake?

Batz

 

[shonky]

Another thing to bear in mind with pH readings is whether you take your reading at mash temp or at room temp. Hydrogen ions disassociate more at a higher temperature, giving a lower pH than at room temp. From memory, and I don't have my text book in front of me, there is normally a difference of 0.3 between pH measurements taken at mash temps (~65) and room temp (~22).
In other words, if you are reading you pH at room temp and it reads - 5.6, the actual mash pH will be more like 5.3.
I will dig out the reference if anyone is interested.

Cheers and Beers to a great long weekend all! :beer: Go Geelong, Manly and England!

 

[Batz]

Any one have an Idea whats in the 5.2 Buffer?Id be interested to see how it operates on a chemistry basis.

Cheers Gryphon Brewing

All jokes aside anyone who sells this,will supply you with a MSDS when you purchase it.This will tell you exactly whats in it and how safe (your disicion) it is in your beer.This is law !Anything you buy like sanitizers,cleaners,any chemical will have one of these available.Believe me I know a bit about this,it and excellent way to meet people at Bunnings as well.Next time you purchase a glue or something at Bunnings ask for the MSDS to go with the product,you will meet all sorts of managers etc,but you will have it before you leave.


Batz