PET Kegs and more
- Thread starter Keg King
- Start date
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Early 2021.
Brewers have asked what would happen if a PRV on a PET fermenter gets blocked and the fermentation was going gang busters. We thought this was a valid question and decided to experiment under safe conditions. Do not try this at home please.
wide eyed and legless
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Yeah, right.
kadmium
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Because if it works, it's not their product they are advertising. If it doesn't work, it's not their product they are disparaging.
We will leave that up to others. Just happy to keep doing whatever is necessary to improve safety.
malt and barley blues
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From what I have read about the reliability of the Fermzilla that would be bestowing it the, 'Kiss of death'
trustyrusty
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Interesting, when brewing do you release pressure now and again with these PRVs - because how would know if it is blocked? It would probably look the same as blocked or not? Or can you see if it looks different?
duncbrewer
Well-Known Member
When I use the Fermentasaurus I start off with the PRV closed, once fermentation starts I put the spunding valve on and if too high at this stage release a bit of pressure with the PRV to test it. I also use the pressure relief valve to lower the pressure before opening and dry hopping. Although now use magnets and hop bags so the hops can be moved in and out of the beer without opening which I find easier.
I did " test " one fermentasaurus brewing a Hefeweizen when I got a new non return ball lock gas connector which I connected to the spunding valve. Didn't realise that it would prevent outflow as wasn't thinking sanely, consequently spunding gauge read 15 psi from when I set it but the keg wasn't releasing gas at all!! When I realised I removed the spunding valve checked the pressure and it was 35 psi so probably had self vented via the PRV over the previous few days. I released the pressure ( slowly as it gets very active ) and then replumbed the spunding valve with correct connector and all was well. Did get a crazy krausen and foam then which reached the top but nothing blocked up.
Beer didn't seem to suffer at all, although not as many esters as I was aiming for but that was probably all suppressed by the very high ferment pressure at the beginning.
Not much opportunity for the spunding valve or PRV to get blocked as even when filling it to 32 litres ( capacity 35 litre of fermentasaurus) the krausen is kept under control most of the time with the top pressure. If I'm brewing a Hefeweizen or Belgian and think the krausen is going to be huge then I connect gas post on Fermentasaurus to empty sanitised kegs liquid post and put the spunding valve on the gas post of the keg. The keg catches any blow off yeast( and is an easy way to top harvest yeast as well if you want).
Then when it settles I disconnect the blow off catcher and put the spunding valve back on the gas post of the fermentasaurus.
Does that help ?
I did " test " one fermentasaurus brewing a Hefeweizen when I got a new non return ball lock gas connector which I connected to the spunding valve. Didn't realise that it would prevent outflow as wasn't thinking sanely, consequently spunding gauge read 15 psi from when I set it but the keg wasn't releasing gas at all!! When I realised I removed the spunding valve checked the pressure and it was 35 psi so probably had self vented via the PRV over the previous few days. I released the pressure ( slowly as it gets very active ) and then replumbed the spunding valve with correct connector and all was well. Did get a crazy krausen and foam then which reached the top but nothing blocked up.
Beer didn't seem to suffer at all, although not as many esters as I was aiming for but that was probably all suppressed by the very high ferment pressure at the beginning.
Not much opportunity for the spunding valve or PRV to get blocked as even when filling it to 32 litres ( capacity 35 litre of fermentasaurus) the krausen is kept under control most of the time with the top pressure. If I'm brewing a Hefeweizen or Belgian and think the krausen is going to be huge then I connect gas post on Fermentasaurus to empty sanitised kegs liquid post and put the spunding valve on the gas post of the keg. The keg catches any blow off yeast( and is an easy way to top harvest yeast as well if you want).
Then when it settles I disconnect the blow off catcher and put the spunding valve back on the gas post of the fermentasaurus.
Does that help ?
Grmblz
Well-Known Member
That's the problem, you can't really tell just by looking, you have to operate the PRV to see if pressure is released, which rather defeats the object of the exercise, in practice as long as you have clear head space blocking shouldn't be a problem.
trustyrusty
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They quite good especially for space re fermenting fridge.
I guess you can just pull the valve now and again.
One of the contributors on the Homebrew forum in the UK and Dr Hans in Sweden complained about the fact they were hoping for the “bang”.
I so get wanting to see it go bang but the reality is the safe failure mode is what makes it worth investing in a Keg King product from Australia compared to stuff coming out of China which is simply not suitable for pressure fermenting. We actually do want to take it to its limit so we have machined a stainless steel lid which will not deform and we plan to run this experiment again with this. Hopefully it will be the neck ring holding the lid which breaks but let’s see what the real experiment reveals.
It is very important for us to provide these videos as we seek to differentiate ourselves from products which are similar in looks and even names. Many people throughout the world have bought products thinking they were getting our gear or that it came from the same factory in china when this was not the case. Quite a few have had messy and potentially dangerous experiences.
Stay tune for when we use “The Lid of Destruction”.
I so get wanting to see it go bang but the reality is the safe failure mode is what makes it worth investing in a Keg King product from Australia compared to stuff coming out of China which is simply not suitable for pressure fermenting. We actually do want to take it to its limit so we have machined a stainless steel lid which will not deform and we plan to run this experiment again with this. Hopefully it will be the neck ring holding the lid which breaks but let’s see what the real experiment reveals.
It is very important for us to provide these videos as we seek to differentiate ourselves from products which are similar in looks and even names. Many people throughout the world have bought products thinking they were getting our gear or that it came from the same factory in china when this was not the case. Quite a few have had messy and potentially dangerous experiences.
Stay tune for when we use “The Lid of Destruction”.
Speaking of lids, would it be possible to manufacture your pet products with same size lids so that the thermowell would fit on all the fermenters. Also how about some built in pet handles like the juniors fitted to the 30 lt Chubby.
Grmblz
Well-Known Member
Yep, that's one way of doing it but then the pressure oscillates up and down which kinda defeats the purpose, I suppose a simpler method (given we are talking about PET fermenters) would be to just peer inside the vessel, and if after high krausen nothing has reached the lid I would assume it's all good, maybe just one quick squirt for peace of mind.
I really like the simplicity of the concept, the only negative I can see is you lose the ability to dial in a particular pressure, I'm actually not a fan of pressure fermenting as a rule, there are a couple of exceptions, but generally I apply pressure towards the end of the ferment, more to do with carbonation than effecting the main fermentation process, but that's just a personal horses for courses thing.
Watching the KK stress test I became a bit nervous towards the end, and was amazed at the result, at the risk of sounding parochial/biased I would suggest if anyone really wants to pressure ferment in PET's, then until KL comes up with a similar test to back up their rhetoric, the KK vessels should be the preferred choice.
Already been suggested, I can but hope. they really would be the ideal fermenter for me, but i suspect the pre forms and tooling etc would represent a significant outlay, where as the current vessels are already done. Time will tell.
Stainless handles are now available for the Chubbies.
GrumpyPaul
Well-Known Member
Is there a link please .... can't find it on the wishes
Probably be the usual 4 week plus wait before the website gets updated.
I looked through 15 pages of Stainless Steel Handles and got no results. Sooo where are they hiding?
Its a problem I agree - had to go and kick arse to make sure they get on. Check back in and I sure hope they are there by now.
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