Paulaner Oktoberfest??

[laxation]

I'm drinking one of these right now and it's just bloody delicious - does anyone have a decent recipe to make one?

I found this https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/paulaner-oktoberfest-marzen-clone \

But no idea how good it is.

Any tips to make it and keep that creamy taste would be great too...

 

[goatchop41]

https://www.paulaner.com/products/other-specialties/oktoberfest-bier#tabid_Ingredients

 

[goatchop41]

http://www.brewunited.com/index.php?blogid=159

 

[labels]

Pilsner malt - and lots of it. Minimal amounts of spec malt and keep the hops on the low side. Use a high attenuating LAGER yeast and pay close attention to temperature control

 

[yankinoz]

Did one a couple years back that was reasonably close. The Paulaner has long been a favorite.

The yeast matters. I used a dry yeast, Saflager S-189, which Craft Brew repackages as Swiss Lager Yeast. It emphasizes the malt, whereas the very popular 34/70 strain is better suited to pilsners. Use 2 packets in a @20L batch and pitch at 10 or lower. Or research liquid yeasts for malty lagers.

I used a grist of Weyermann malts: 60% pilsner, 37% Munich I, and 3% Carapils. Paulaner would not use the Carapils, but it does add to mouth feel. I BIAB. but try hard to minimize mash aeration in malty brews.

Long boil, at least 75 minutes. I used 90.

Of the hops listed by Paulaner, Hallertau Mitt is the only one you're likely to find here. Perle is a good choice for bittering, but keep the IBUs within BJCP guidelines for the for the style, Hallertau later, but no later than -15.. Actually I used all Mt Hood that I had in stock. Hops on the light side, yes.

 

[laxation]

Thanks for that!

DI BIAB. but try hard to minimize mash aeration in malty brews.

What is masha aeration and how do you minimise it?

 

[MHB]

There is a good if old recipe on BYO, its part of an article on brewing the style, well worth a read.
Yeast and yeast management is critical (as mentioned above) there is some very good information on lager brewing available on the Wyeast website, look for the Wyeast discussion on brewing Lager.
The best I have tasted were very simple beers (well brewed) I like Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner and very little of anything else, maybe just a touch of CaraHell, step mashing or even better decoction, long boils, classic hops (Hallertau Mittlefruh being the go to hop) and lots of very healthy yeast.
I find the Floor Malted Pilsner and a longer boil gives a lot of depth and a bit of extra colour that really suits the style.
Mark

 

[Adr_0]

Aren't Paulaner one of the few - with Schneider - that do decoctions?

 

[MHB]

I believe so, decoction is slower and more expensive for commercial brewers and lots have dropped them, quite a few have cut back from double or triple decoction to single, with steps by hot water additions and/or steam heated mash tuns.
In some styles it really shows, for mine - BoPils, Fest, Marzen, Bock... being among them.
You can tell the difference!
Mark

 

[Adr_0]

I believe so, decoction is slower and more expensive for commercial brewers and lots have dropped them, quite a few have cut back from double or triple decoction to single, with steps by hot water additions and/or steam heated mash tuns.
In some styles it really shows, for mine - BoPils, Fest, Marzen, Bock... being among them.
You can tell the difference!
Mark

Yeah I think so. It's been about 10 years since I've had a Paulaner O'fest but I still remember it being one of the better beers on the planet... before the cool kids came to town anyway.

I would have thought it would be something like 70-80% pils and 20-30% light Munich with a decoction, based on some literature, their website ingredients and what I remember of it. I've had a Weihenstephaner o'fest more recently which shows the light Munich cracker flavour but doesn't seem to have the gravity or the depth of flavour of the Paulaner. My 2c anyway.

 

[labels]

Most - if not all the German Oct. lagers like Paulaner are fairly light in colour and very malty of course. Even light Munich adds quite a dark colour to beer if used in any sort of quantity which kind of proves to me that very little or possibly no spec malts were used. They are usually a fairly high ABV beer so this leads to believe that the beer is mainly - if not all pilsner malt brewed to a fairly high OG. Decoction or at least a step mash and a long boil seems to be a very likely method of getting the rich malty melanoidins in the beer. THis is my opinion anyway and the route I am taking next time I have a go at this style - having tried the Munich/Vienna routes in the past without much success. (still great beers but not great Fest beers)

 

[Jack of all biers]

Aren't Paulaner one of the few - with Schneider - that do decoctions?

Yes, Paulaner do a double decoction. Says so on their website. It's 6% ABV. Only use Munich and Pilsner malt from Bavaria (doesn't give much away in so far as percentages, but Weyermann is in northern Bavaria and the largest German Maltster, so likely their supplier). They produce an Octoberfest Maerzen beer and an Oktoberfest Wies'n.

They state the Oktoberfest Wies'n (the one that gets served at the Oktoberfest) uses Herkules, Taurus and Hallertau varieties. The Wies'n is clearly lighter in colour than the Oktoberfest Maerzen beer which uses Hallertau only.

They state they aim for 80% attenuation with their yeast, which is kept at the Weihenstephen University. They lager at 0C for a 4 week minimum.

I'd say that the Maerzen is more a traditional Maerzen in the style of the Vienna Lagers that it originally copied and has a higher percentage of Munich malt to the tune of 40-48% (based on a recipe or two I have for two of the competitors, Hacker-Pschorr 25 EBC and Spaten 32 EBC). The Wies'n is likely to have anywhere between 10-20% Munich malt, but likely on the lower end and only light Munich, with the rest as Pilsner.

Servus

 

[laxation]

What do you all think of this?
Sort of a mix of all the links & advice.. hopefully I grabbed the good bits and not the bad

75% Pilsner
22% Munich I
3% Carapils

Mash at 64.5 for 90min

90min boil

17.7g Hallertau @ 60 (or FWH?)
17.7g Tettnang @ 60 (or FWH?)
35.4g Saaz @ 0*
17.7g Hallertau @ 0*

30g S-189

IBU ~26.6 (I don't know the AA for any of the hops)
ABV 6.2%

* I am doing no-chill BIAB, so have calculated 15min in beersmith.

 

[Adr_0]

Yeah I'd be leaning towards what MHB and labels say - get the maltiness from a 1.060 starting gravity, 90min boil - which you've planned - and a suitable yeast. S-189 might be fine, but 50g is probably a better amount - or two packs in a couple of starters.

Malt wise, ditch the cara-pils. I think an Oktoberfest would be nice with some Munich, but the extra weight of pils will darken the beer - so perhaps 10 or 15% Munich is suitable but not more than that.

Which pils malt are you going to use? I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I'm not sure that the no-chill method will give you the delicate hops flavour - might get too coarse.

 

[laxation]

Weyermann Pilsner.
Unfortunately I have no way to chill it, but I'm happy to try it no-chill and learn from it as to whether or not it sucks.

Re. carapils, I'm really going more for how it tastes than what it looks like. How do you think it would affect the flavour?
Not super fussed whether it's in or not.

I can get another pack of yeast to bring it to 45g, no worries.

 

[Adr_0]

Weyermann Pilsner.
Unfortunately I have no way to chill it, but I'm happy to try it no-chill and learn from it as to whether or not it sucks.

Re. carapils, I'm really going more for how it tastes than what it looks like. How do you think it would affect the flavour?
Not super fussed whether it's in or not.

I can get another pack of yeast to bring it to 45g, no worries.

I just don't think that Carapils adds anything. You want grain, bread, malt, toast in this beer, and carapils doesn't really give any of that - or anything really... - while pils certainly will, and Munich will too... Though yeah maybe just 10%.

A quick calc for the yeast suggests ~500bn cells will be needed and if the 9bn/g number is to be believed then 45g would certainly be pretty close. I would highly recommend 300-400mL of your wort is spun with the three packets of yeast for a couple of hours to ensure good cell vitality.

 

[goatchop41]

I'd say that the Maerzen is more a traditional Maerzen in the style of the Vienna Lagers that it originally copied and has a higher percentage of Munich malt to the tune of 40-48% (based on a recipe or two I have for two of the competitors, Hacker-Pschorr 25 EBC and Spaten 32 EBC).

It is worth noting here that we seem to be getting input for two different styles of beer here.
If @laxation drank what I think that he/she did, then a lot of the above suggestions will NOT get him/her what they want.
If my somewhat educated deduction (due to them recently having been sold at Aldi, and not really being sold much elsewhere) is correct, then laxation had the Paulaner Festbier/Oktoberfest Bier, not the Oktoberfest Marzen. Both very different beasts, as a lot of you will appreciate.

@laxation , see the two following links for the distinction between the two - with the marzen being much darker and having a much greater munich malt character (plus one traditional hop)....
https://www.paulaner.com/products/other-specialties/oktoberfest-bier#tabid_Ingredients
https://www.paulaner.com/us/products/oktoberfest-beers/oktoberfest-marzen#tabid_Ingredients

A lot of the suggestions/discussion above (particularly with >10% munich malt) are more suited to a marzen-type beer. If you had the one from Aldi, it is the lighter Festbier from the first link

 

[laxation]

Ahh... thanks goat - yes it was the Festbier and not the marzen. That explains the difference between the munich %'s... will go with 10% now I understand what's going on

 

[goatchop41]

Ahh... thanks goat - yes it was the Festbier and not the marzen. That explains the difference between the munich %'s... will go with 10% now I understand what's going on

I hate to disagree with MHB, given his level of knowledge (however, I would certainly be agreeing with him if you were making a Marzen), but I would be going with @labels advice - heaps of pils, only a touch of light munich (I'd go 5%, 10% may be pushing it. Check the EBC for it with 5% vs 10% on your brewing software to see what matches with what you're after).

Also, regarding the OG, the 'serving suggestion' tab on the page that I linked above states that the 'original wort' is 13.7%, which I assume is degrees plato, which would be about 1.056 OG. Therefore to reach an ABV of 6%, you'd need an FG of 1.010-1.011 (agreeing with Jack of all biers' quoted figure of 80-81% attenuation)

 

[goatchop41]

Also very interesting what they state about inactive yeast at point 6 here: https://www.paulaner.com/oktoberfest/7-secrets