Oven Sanitising Bottles?

[BrewerDave]

Hi.

I'm bottling a chocolate stout tomorrow. This is the first time I'll ever be bottling in glass and I need to sanitise my bottles.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,...5014108,00.html tells me I can leave them in the oven for a while, this seems like a good idea to me since there is no chance for yucky tastes of bleach or other chemicals left in the bottle. My main concern would be the bottles shattering from the heat.

All of my bottles are Coopers long necks and Malt Shovel and Matilda Bay stubbies.

Does anyone know how well these bottles take heat?

Thanks

 

[pablo_h]

They are fine if you put them in a cold oven, so they gradually warm up. Takes 2-3hrs though after the oven has got to temp to be considered sanatised that way. Then you leave them in the oven to cool down for 4 hours or so.
I find a good soak in sodium percarbonate for a while, an inspection to see if there's any crud in there ( if so use a bottle brush and resoak and check) then a bit of starsan swished around does the trick for me. Quicker and better at getting any crap out of the bottle as the oven method takes 6 hrs+
I never had a decent beer until I used the percarbonate/starsan method, so starsan foam or residue does not affect the beer at all.

 

[QldKev]

I've seen the oven trick done; as already mentioned put the bottles in a cold oven and gradually warm; I still ask why!!

When bottling I used to use 1/2 cup bleach, 1/2 cup white vinegar and about 1 cup water.
Pour half in 1 bottle shake and let it sit while you pour the other half into another bottle. Grab first bottle and pour into a third bottle, shake and sit; the pour 2nd into fourth etc. A quick rinse in each bottle and all done.

I use the same solution for my fermentors and kegs; don't leave it in the kegs more than 1 minute thou.

QldKev

 

[Interloper]

The oven method is an unnecessary waste of time IMHO. Save yourself some effort.

I bought a heap of longies from my recycling depot that were cruddy as anything. Several hours in the bath tub filled with scalding hot water and homebrand napisan and they are sparkling clean. ('cept for one or two that have a bit of remaining crud that even the brush won't shift).

These then go to the shed and get stored upside down on the bottle tree or in plastic storage bins

Then the night before bottling day I use a no rinse sanitiser.

I make a litre's worth and then put a bit in the first bottle, swirl it around, tip it into the next bottle and repeat - change the sanitiser water after every 10 bottles.

Once your bottles are clean rinse them immediately after drinking in very hot water and drain. If you store them in plastic storage containers like me then you can get away without needing to use a sterilser.

Last two brews have been bottled into stubbies that were thoroughly rinsed in hot water and stored in air tight containers, no sanitising and no problems.

 

[earle]

I've heard of vinegar and bleach before but when I think of vinegar I think of acetobacteria. Are acetobacteria used in the production of vinegar and is there a chance of infection by using it as part of the sanitation process?

 

[PostModern]

I've heard of vinegar and bleach before but when I think of vinegar I think of acetobacteria. Are acetobacteria used in the production of vinegar and is there a chance of infection by using it as part of the sanitation process?

White vinegar is distilled. No acetobacter. Don't use Balsamic or anything with a floating pellicle

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Using the oven doesn't take as long as you guys are saying - it still takes a fair while mind you, but not 6hrs. The quoted figures for dry sterilization - its usually 4hrs - are for a temperature of 150... but there is nothing saying you have to keep it to 150. Every 10C you increase the temperature, halves the amount of time required.

So given an hour to ramp the temp up (so as not to weaken the bottles too much) you would only need to have them at 200C for 7.5minutes to make them sterile - not sanitised, sterile. Then you have to let them cool slowly of course, so thats another hour or so.

If you scrunch a little lid of tinfoil on the top of the bottle - not only does that negate the needing to keep the oven clean issue - it also means that the bottle stays sterile until you take the foil off. Indefinitely. I have bottles I sanitised 12 months ago that I can use at a minutes notice, as sterile as the moment they came out of the oven.

I don't sanitise this way on bottling day - or even the day before. Its too much of a PITA and a no rinse is much easier. BUT it is a good idea if you are organised and sanitise as you go.

I do it exactly that way. I like it a lot. You drink beers, get an oven tray's worth of empties. Sanitise. Next tray full, sanitise again. That way on Bottling day, there is Zero work to do. Pull off the foil as you are about to fill the bottle. Fill, Grab your cap out of a little bowl of sanitiser and whack it on.

Long term strength doesn't seem to be an issue, but I play it pretty safe. When I am heating the bottles, dont just whack em in at 180... put them into the cold oven and turn it on low for 20 mins then medium, then I go up to 200-220 for 30-40 and turn the oven off leaving them to cool slowly. DONT open the door.

Never a bottle infection and bottling is a lot easier than it used to be. But you have to keep on top of your sanitising as you go, if you try to sanitise them all the night before or worse yet on the day... its just stupid.

But the bleach and vinegar thing work great as well - cheapest no rinse sanitiser there is.

 

[haysie]

All of my bottles are Coopers long necks and Malt Shovel and Matilda Bay stubbies.

Does anyone know how well these bottles take heat?

Thanks

I reckon they take heat no probs, i have used them in the past. My routine is a quick rinse after use, normally the next morning, if it`s the next week they go in the bin. Into a reasonably clean oven, as long as its not dripping with fat n grease it should be ok. 180deg @ 75 minutes, cool down, foil scrunchie, then whenever i require bottles for beer or yeast slurry, they are at hand and ready. Simple, easy method.
Haysie

 

[Lobsta]

Using the oven doesn't take as long as you guys are saying - it still takes a fair while mind you, but not 6hrs. The quoted figures for dry sterilization - its usually 4hrs - are for a temperature of 150... but there is nothing saying you have to keep it to 150. Every 10C you increase the temperature, halves the amount of time required.

So given an hour to ramp the temp up (so as not to weaken the bottles too much) you would only need to have them at 200C for 7.5minutes to make them sterile - not sanitised, sterile. Then you have to let them cool slowly of course, so thats another hour or so.

If you scrunch a little lid of tinfoil on the top of the bottle - not only does that negate the needing to keep the oven clean issue - it also means that the bottle stays sterile until you take the foil off. Indefinitely. I have bottles I sanitised 12 months ago that I can use at a minutes notice, as sterile as the moment they came out of the oven.

I don't sanitise this way on bottling day - or even the day before. Its too much of a PITA and a no rinse is much easier. BUT it is a good idea if you are organised and sanitise as you go.

I do it exactly that way. I like it a lot. You drink beers, get an oven tray's worth of empties. Sanitise. Next tray full, sanitise again. That way on Bottling day, there is Zero work to do. Pull off the foil as you are about to fill the bottle. Fill, Grab your cap out of a little bowl of sanitiser and whack it on.

Long term strength doesn't seem to be an issue, but I play it pretty safe. When I am heating the bottles, dont just whack em in at 180... put them into the cold oven and turn it on low for 20 mins then medium, then I go up to 200-220 for 30-40 and turn the oven off leaving them to cool slowly. DONT open the door.

Never a bottle infection and bottling is a lot easier than it used to be. But you have to keep on top of your sanitising as you go, if you try to sanitise them all the night before or worse yet on the day... its just stupid.

But the bleach and vinegar thing work great as well - cheapest no rinse sanitiser there is.

+1
I do mine at 180 for 20 mins then blast them at 220 for 10 then leave them in the oven overnight to slowly cool (VERY IMPORTANT!!!)

 

[BrewerDave]

Thanks for the info guys. Tray of bottles in the oven now :beerbang:

 

[RobB]

I rinse each bottle as I empty it and bake with a foil top when I have enough to fill an oven. 1 hour at 180 works for me.

I always do this in the evening, so the bottles cool slowly overnight.

The only PITA I have found with this method is taking the labels off virgin bottles so that the house doesn't smell of burning paper. I never bothered with the labels when I sanitised with liquid.

 

[HoppingMad]

Hmmm...repeat oven heating actually will cause bottles to degrade and shatter. That's if you keep doing it. Don't reckon any strength of bottle will stop that. For your purposes short term you should have no probs, and agree the coopers & reddies are tougher glass (certainly wouldn't recommend with a thinner 500ml german weizen bottle) but I will dig out an article I have on it from an expert US brewer and post it here tonight . Just thought I'd better post this precaution.

Cheers,

Hopper.

 

[HoppingMad]

Hmmm...repeat oven heating actually will cause bottles to degrade and shatter. That's if you keep doing it. Don't reckon any strength of bottle will stop that. For your purposes short term you should have no probs, and agree the coopers & reddies are tougher glass (certainly wouldn't recommend with a thinner 500ml german weizen bottle) but I will dig out an article I have on it from an expert US brewer and post it here tonight . Just thought I'd better post this precaution.

Cheers,

Hopper.

All right - stand corrected. The author in the article experiences bottles exploding after repeat use of a steaming method, not oven heating (the author said he used an unpressurised seafood steamer) and that caused bottles to shatter. The bottles exploded during counter-pressure filling. Reckon you should be cool for what you're doing. Apologies for being alarmist. :huh:

Some interesting points in it though so will share them anyhow:
- Says 30-45 mins dry heat exposure in an oven effective enough to kill beer spoilage bacteria and yeast in bottles (that's based on a heat of 260oC/500oF)
- Moist heat such as autoclaves and pressure cookers are most effective and quicker at just 20 mins at 15 psi. Where you'd get an autoclave is beyond me.

Author is Ashton Lewis who's a columnist for Brew Your Own magazine (american) so seems a credible source (if you trust our american cousins ).

Hopper.

 

[pablo_h]

All right - stand corrected. The author in the article experiences bottles exploding after repeat use of a steaming method, not oven heating (the author said he used an unpressurised seafood steamer) and that caused bottles to shatter. The bottles exploded during counter-pressure filling. Reckon you should be cool for what you're doing. Apologies for being alarmist. :huh:

Some interesting points in it though so will share them anyhow:
- Says 30-45 mins dry heat exposure in an oven effective enough to kill beer spoilage bacteria and yeast in bottles (that's based on a heat of 260oC/500oF)
- Moist heat such as autoclaves and pressure cookers are most effective and quicker at just 20 mins at 15 psi. Where you'd get an autoclave is beyond me.

Author is Ashton Lewis who's a columnist for Brew Your Own magazine (american) so seems a credible source (if you trust our american cousins ).

Hopper.

I thought thinner bottles were better for oven heating, now that you mention 500ml german stubbies (i've got heaps and they're pretty thin I agree). The main reason for me thinking this way is that the thinner the bottle, the closer the inside and outside temps will match through quicker conduction, no large temp difference = no shatter. Just like glass for filter coffer pots and french press pots are always pretty thin

 

[Thirsty Boy]

All right - stand corrected. The author in the article experiences bottles exploding after repeat use of a steaming method, not oven heating (the author said he used an unpressurised seafood steamer) and that caused bottles to shatter. The bottles exploded during counter-pressure filling. Reckon you should be cool for what you're doing. Apologies for being alarmist. :huh:

Some interesting points in it though so will share them anyhow:
- Says 30-45 mins dry heat exposure in an oven effective enough to kill beer spoilage bacteria and yeast in bottles (that's based on a heat of 260oC/500oF)
- Moist heat such as autoclaves and pressure cookers are most effective and quicker at just 20 mins at 15 psi. Where you'd get an autoclave is beyond me.

Author is Ashton Lewis who's a columnist for Brew Your Own magazine (american) so seems a credible source (if you trust our american cousins ).

Hopper.

The time quoted for dry heat always includes a period of time to heat up to the killing temperature. So you're talking bottles in cold oven set to 220C, turn on and 30-45mins later you are sure everything is dead. I think that everyone who has been talking here so far is going to easily get things into the safe zone in the times that have been being discussed; because we have mostly been talking about a much more gentle heat up and cool down process - for the structural integrity of the bottles - but the side effect is that the time a bottle spend fully heated and above the everything dies temperature is more than adequate.