Old Specled Hen -boil Size & Fermentation Questions

[dalpets]

hello everyone

This recipe is widely available on the web and I want to use it to brew.

I have a couple of questions;

* the recipe states primary fermentation, secondary fermentation & additional fermentation (see red highlight below). How does the additional fermentation 21 come into play?.

* the recipe says a boil of 30.29 litres for 60mins for a 23 litre batch size (see red highlight). Why that size boil? I doesn't seem right that you would lose 7.29 litres in that time.

Thanks for your insights.





Old Speckled Hen

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Danstar Nottingham
Yeast Starter: No
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: No
Batch Size (Gallons): 6.5
Original Gravity: 1050
Final Gravity: 1013
IBU: 47
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 10
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14
Additional Fermentation: 21

Recipe: Old Speckled Hen
Brewer: Orfy
Style: English Old Ale

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 30.29 L
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 10.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 47.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.45 kg Lyle's Golden Syrup (0.0 SRM) Extract 8.3 %
4.35 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 80.0 %
0.54 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 9.9 %
45.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 42.1 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
0.10 kg Dememera Sugar (2.0 SRM) Sugar 1.8 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.89 kg
----------------------------
Mash In Add 12.76 L of water at 76.9 C 68.0 C 90 min

 

[kelbygreen]

additional would be bottle fermentation.

for the boil volume it will vary from system to system. you could do a run with just water to see if your system boils more or less and adjust to that but in saying that you may have to adjust the hops to suit your boil volume as if you have a boil volume of less it will be less bitter as the wort will be heavier and if its a boil volume is more then the wort will be lighter so you wont need as much. If that makes sence I dont think the late additions matter it will only be the bittering addition that will change as at 15 mins the wort will be so close to what it should be and at the end you should have the same gravity so its only the early hop id worry about.

 

[felten]

Not being the person that wrote up the recipe, I would hazard a guess that additional fermentation is either the time you leave it in the keg or bottle before drinking. Either way its not an important factor in the recipe that you have to replicate, don't overthink these things.

Batch size in beersmith is usually the end of boil volume, but maybe this person has put his fermenter volume in there instead, or he really gets 24% boil off (the batch size above that says 6.5G which is 24.5L). Another factor that you don't have to replicate exactly.

 

[dans6401]

Might be right off the mark, but i'd assume aditional fermentation is refering to time in the bottle. I'm sure others on here can answer your other questions, and probably correct me at the same time.

 

[dans6401]

So quick. I've got to learn to type faster.

 

[dalpets]

Not being the person that wrote up the recipe, I would hazard a guess that additional fermentation is either the time you leave it in the keg or bottle before drinking. Either way its not an important factor in the recipe that you have to replicate, don't overthink these things.

Batch size in beersmith is usually the end of boil volume, but maybe this person has put his fermenter volume in there instead, or he really gets 24% boil off (the batch size above that says 6.5G which is 24.5L). Another factor that you don't have to replicate exactly.

Without wanting to over think the boil volume issue isn't it true to say that the final volume is to all intents & purposes determined by the length of the sparge ie., at the cut off SG?

 

[np1962]

Without wanting to over think the boil volume issue isn't it true to say that the final volume is to all intents & purposes determined by the length of the sparge ie., at the cut off SG?

I would say the inverse is true, you plan your strike and sparge volumes to get the required boil volume.
As for the boil off, you need to boil off a certain percentage so you drive off the precursors for DMS etc..
Bit late on a Friday night to go into detail, maybe revisit this in the morning.
Cheers
Nige

 

[felten]

I BIAB so I would say no

What nige said, if you know your system and your losses to kettle trub and boil off then you should be able to hit whatever volume you want, the formula is pretty simple for BIAB.

desired volume in FV + kettle losses + boil off = preboil volume. So if you fly sparge you just stop when you hit your preboil volume.

 

[goomboogo]

Some possibilities regarding the boil size. Let's say there is a 2.0 litre loss to trub and deadspace, a 0.5 litre loss to the chiller, 0.9 litre loss to cooling and 3.9 litres/hour evaporation. Total losses - 7.3 litres. Therefore a boil size of 30.3 litres is required to yield 23 litres.

As others have said these numbers differ depending on your system. Once you know the volumes for the various losses in your system you can calculate the boil size required to give the desired finished wort volume.

 

[Bribie G]

Doing a speckie today and my initial strike water (BIAB) is 33L, lose about 4L to absorbtion in the spent grain, lose a bit to trub, one hour boil, end up with 23L cube. It also depends on the shape of your pot. A pot 10cm wide and 50 metres tall would lose less per hour than a pot the area of a swimming pool and a centimetre high

All shapes and sizes in between.

 

[MarkBastard]

What do you think of that recipe bribie? golden syrup? that much crystal?

 

[Mattese]

I worked off this recipe a couple of months ago, but kegged it. An English friend of mine told me it was a very nice drop, but wasn't very close to the mark of an Old Speckled Hen.

He was very particular about the carbonation level, so that may have played a part too.

 

[dalpets]

I would say the inverse is true, you plan your strike and sparge volumes to get the required boil volume.
As for the boil off, you need to boil off a certain percentage so you drive off the precursors for DMS etc..
Bit late on a Friday night to go into detail, maybe revisit this in the morning.
Cheers
Nige

I was assuming that the planning had been done via Beersmith or whatever, in which case I was suggesting that theoretically the sparge volume would coincide with that planning to establish the final pre boil volume.

 

[goomboogo]

I was assuming that the planning had been done via Beersmith or whatever, in which case I was suggesting that theoretically the sparge volume would coincide with that planning to establish the final pre boil volume.

If using a program like Beersmith or something similar, you will still need to set it up with all the relevant losses for your particular system. Let us know what equipment and method you're planning on using and suggestions will be forthcoming regarding what can be done to work out what the losses are going to be.

 

[bum]

What do you think of that recipe bribie? golden syrup? that much crystal?

Same question again for anyone. I've had a OSH clone sitting on the back-burner for some time, waiting to come across a well regarded recipe.

 

[dalpets]

Same question again for anyone. I've had a OSH clone sitting on the back-burner for some time, waiting to come across a well regarded recipe.

Where do you think this recipe misses out? Do you tnink it's not up to style?

 

[bum]

If knew I probably wouldn't be asking the question in the first place, would I?

 

[dalpets]

If using a program like Beersmith or something similar, you will still need to set it up with all the relevant losses for your particular system. Let us know what equipment and method you're planning on using and suggestions will be forthcoming regarding what can be done to work out what the losses are going to be.

Using a PID temperature controller (via element based heat exchanger ) for oblong 23.7 litre esky type cooler for mash, March pump, large SS pots & high heat gas burner, The system I built is set up for compact transfer so that there is only a 2*C heat loss between exchanger & mash tun. This loss is easily compensated for. Strke water & sparge water can pe pumped from the gas heated pot.

This will be the first all grain brew that I will be doing with this new system

I have Promash software but am not well versed in its usage at this juncture.

Please let me know if you require more info.

Thanks

 

[dalpets]

If knew I probably wouldn't be asking the question in the first place, would I?

How will you decide, then, what is a highly regarded recipe? Are their sites that provide reviews? The recipe that I posted is given a 5/5 by the author but another person may give it a 1/5. Taste is subjective eh?. Only an expert could peruse the ingredients and perhaps say that it it is liable not to be up to commercial style, if indeed, that is what one is trying to achieve.

I'm thinking here of the analogy of a Grange Hermitage wine that judges will give top marks for technical excellence. But, of course, just because it is so doesn't mean that all will like its taste/style.

 

[bum]

Or I could ask if anyone has brewed an OSH clone that they are happy with amongst a group of homebrew enthusiasts and if they might be able to advise me how to do so.

Now where might I find such a group of people?