Not Much Luck With Lager Beers

[Onzapftis]

Hi All, :icon_cheers:


I have been home brewing for about 4 years, usually malt and extract kits. I have been very happy with the results on styles such as Wheat Beers, Pale Ales, Stouts, Porters and Belgian Strong Ales. I usually use the coresponding liquid yeast, correct temp. etc.

But lagers have been a different story :angry:

A good starter of yeast is made, pitched at 20`C then temp is reduced to 10`C -13`C fermented for 2 weeks then racked for another 3 weeks. Up to this stage everything is going well. Nice malty taste with hops flavour.
I then bottle in a combination of glass and plastic bottles using carbonation drops.
I taste after 4 weeks and the clean malty taste has been replaced with an unplesant smell and flavour. Slightly nutty estery type. Try it after 3 months and it is still there but not as much. If I open the bottle and let it stand for 10 minutes the unplesant flavour is reduced by about 60%.
This happens in every batch of lager I have made.
I mean ,I do not expect a Becks etc.type of result, but how can there be such a difference between what comes out of the fermenter and once the product has been bottled??

If I were to Keg this, would I still get the unplesant flavour or would this be a good solution?

Any help would be much apreciated.

I have a Bock which is still in the fermenter and tasting nice.

Thanks.

 

[matti]

what strain of yeast are you using?
Estery flavour is common in lager beers but subdued.
The nutty flavour could be from the adjuncts....
Stab in the dark really.
I see it is your 1st post.
Join a club or participate in a brew competition.
They give you good feed back.

In lagers beer you cannot hide flaws.
These flaws that you may detect in your lager is hard to detect in Ales.

 

[dmcke109]

Couple of things spring to mind:

1. how do you steralise your bottles? Maybe try using something a little bit different (although you said that the taste is only weird with lagers and not your other beers so maybe this isn't a drama)
2. maybe use something other than carbo drops to 2nd ferment - maybe just try sugar??
3. lagers are harder to brew than ales - it's harder to mask any of the off flavours - you might have to live with it until you start all grain brewing (would be interesting to see if those same off flavours were there if you brewed yourself a Fresh Wort Kit and tried brewing that with a lager yeast - maybe give that a go)
4. and this is the best suggestion - get yourself some kegs and force carbonate - since i've done this i haven't looked back.

Cheers,
hop_alot

whoops one other thing - have you heard of a diacetyl rest? I noticed that you said you fermented your beers at 10 - 13C for several weeks but you didn't mention raising the temp to get rid of any excess diacetal. Having said this you only really need to worry about diacetyl when you are force carbonating and then cold conditioning in kegs. If you are naturally fermenting your beers at room temp than this should eat up any of the diacetyl.
Anyway here's a link that you might have already seen, as you have been brewing for a few years:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter10-4.html


Really weird how the smell disappears after you have left the beer open for a while...... anyway best of luck :icon_cheers:

 

[pablo_h]

I heard a similar problem in a brewcast I was listening to, a brewer had a problem with lagers but not dark beers.
The consensus there was oxidation ,which the flavour shows up easier in the lighter lagers. How carefully are you racking and bottling?
Other than that, do you rack all the others, or just the lagers?
How clean are is the equipment and bottles, what yeast is used?

 

[rimrunner]

not being a lager brewer this might be a noob question...

but why do you pitch at 20`c? isn't it better to treat the yeast to the same temps it will work at?

 

[Onzapftis]

Thanks for the quick responses,

I will answer in order:

I usually use WLP 830 or the South German Lager Yeast

The Bock that I have going at the moment is from of a 15L fresh wort, so I do not really want it to go down the same path! Brewed with the South German Lager Yeast.

Oxidation!!
That sounds interesting. I have recently lost one of my Brews ( Porter) which turned into Vinegar!! Pretty sure that is what happened there.
Regarding the question of how carefully am I racking and bottling the beer.
I just let it flow through the hose from the fermenter into the racking cube.
For bottling I use one of those standard attachments to the hose.

Are there any reference posts to how to rack or bottle properly? How emberassing!

I use the same racking and filling process for ales as well.

The equipment is reasonably clean.


Thanks

 

[0M39A]

Thanks for the quick responses,

I will answer in order:

I usually use WLP 830 or the South German Lager Yeast

The Bock that I have going at the moment is from of a 15L fresh wort, so I do not really want it to go down the same path! Brewed with the South German Lager Yeast.

Oxidation!!
That sounds interesting. I have recently lost one of my Brews ( Porter) which turned into Vinegar!! Pretty sure that is what happened there.
Regarding the question of how carefully am I racking and bottling the beer.
I just let it flow through the hose from the fermenter into the racking cube.
For bottling I use one of those standard attachments to the hose.

Are there any reference posts to how to rack or bottle properly? How emberassing!

I use the same racking and filling process for ales as well.

The equipment is reasonably clean.


Thanks

reasonably clean, or spotless clean then sanitised?

i ask because you say "I have recently lost one of my Brews ( Porter) which turned into Vinegar!!" acetobacter and/or lactobacillus will do this. was the beer slimey or "ropey" in any way?

 

[pablo_h]

Well the porter turning to vinegar is another thing. Reasonably clean is no where near the level of cleanlinest you need to achieve.
Some brewers are just lucky and 'clean enough' gives them decent beers for a while.
I could not make a drinkable beer until I was the cleanest brewer I have ever come across, I riuned 4+ batches before I boiled and starsaned everything.

How do you sanatise? How clean is you hose and bottle filler?
I had all sorts of problems until using no rinse Starsan on plastics and bottles, spoons, bottle caps, can openers, including on my hands constantly, removing the taps and cleaning the threads before brewing etc. As well as boiling the hell out of everything (water, priming sugar etc).

 

[samhighley]

I've recently started drinking a Coopers European Lager brewed using the Craftbrewer Swiss Lager (aka S-189) and the results are fantastic. I heartily recommend this drop for those looking for a nice lager.

Sam

 

[andrewg1978]

I've recently started drinking a Coopers European Lager brewed using the Craftbrewer Swiss Lager (aka S-189) and the results are fantastic. I heartily recommend this drop for those looking for a nice lager.

Sam

This would be on my list as #1 coopers kit. Even with just the kit yeast a really good outcome. Try dry hopping 10gms hallertau. This is fast becoming apart of my staple diet! I just ferment at 18-20deg for 2 weeks and rack in a keg for 1-2 weeks cond. Very drinkable larger with quick turnaround.