No Dex Sparkling Ale Recipe Wanted

[DKS]

I would like to make a beer without dex or corn syrup using a coopers sparkling ale can. Ive read to be careful not to use too much dry malt but wonder if it can be balanced out with additional hops or other adjuncts. I have several different hops and yeasts at hand.Any suggestions? :icon_cheers:
Daz

 

[Muggus]

All malt will give you a nice beer.
Around 1.5kg of pale malt extract will get you to about the right gravity, and then you could balance it a bit better with one of those 12g hopbags of Goldings(or something similiar) steeped for 15 minutes.
As far as yeast goes, you may want to consider cultivating the Coopers Sparkling ale yeast from the bottle and using that. Otherwise I reckon a Dry Ale yeast might do the trick....something like Safale S-04 might be alright? Cultivated Coopers yeast should give you something far more authentic though.

Never tried making a CPA clone, but thats probably how i'd go about it using K&K

 

[DKS]

All malt will give you a nice beer.
Around 1.5kg of pale malt extract will get you to about the right gravity, and then you could balance it a bit better with one of those 12g hopbags of Goldings(or something similiar) steeped for 15 minutes.
As far as yeast goes, you may want to consider cultivating the Coopers Sparkling ale yeast from the bottle and using that. Otherwise I reckon a Dry Ale yeast might do the trick....something like Safale S-04 might be alright? Cultivated Coopers yeast should give you something far more authentic though.

Never tried making a CPA clone, but thats probably how i'd go about it using K&K

Thanks Muggus thats agood start I might put that on that liquorcraft recipe calculator thingy see what comes up
Im not all that happy using the S-04, I had a few stall on me, probably my own fault but I want to change anyway.The last one of these I did I used sparkling yeast, cultivated, and it was pretty good although I went a bit over board with Amarillo hops,also a bit syrup like from the dry corn hence trying to get away from using it anymore whilst still getting good head etc.Theres no rush Ill see what else pops up. Cheers :icon_cheers:
Daz

 

[Mantis]

Thanks Muggus thats agood start I might put that on that liquorcraft recipe calculator thingy see what comes up
Im not all that happy using the S-04, I had a few stall on me, probably my own fault but I want to change anyway.The last one of these I did I used sparkling yeast, cultivated, and it was pretty good although I went a bit over board with Amarillo hops,also a bit syrup like from the dry corn hence trying to get away from using it anymore whilst still getting good head etc.Theres no rush Ill see what else pops up. Cheers :icon_cheers:
Daz

Best one of these i have done goes like this. More hops would have been better
Coopers SA Can
1.5 kg of light liquidmalt
500 g ldme
300 g Dextrose
200 g dry wheat malt
12.5g Hallertau hops 10 min (pro bably a waste of hops)
US-05 yeast

I know this is probably not what you want but it was good

 

[teitan]

You're not wrong about the reciepe on the coopers site. i made my brew as to their instructions and added 15g of hops as well which still wasn't enough, FAR FAR too sweet

 

[mwd]

Just bottled a Toucan of Thomas Coopers Sparkling with Brigalow New and about 300g of Coopers Light Dry Malt. Coopers Kit Yeast

Has an amber colour and quite bitter hop flavour with a definate Sparkling Ale taste.

Not sure how it will come out after ageing a little in the bottle but it has cleared crystal clear in about 3 days and initial taste was pretty good.

Just have to avoid the temptation of testing a bottle or two.

 

[DKS]

Thanks all for reply they all sound good.Hows this sound?
1 x 1.7 can CSA
1 x 1kg can Caramalt
500gm ldm
12gm PoR
12gm Cascade

Boil ldm & PoR only.
Steep cascade add to fermenter in tea bag
Propogated CSA yeast :icon_cheers:

 

[Spiderpig]

I'm with Teitan, have brewed two CSA's and and one worked out nicely, the other is very very sweet and syrupy. It's only been in the bottle 1 month so really hoping this will improve with some aging?

Brewed to 23 ltrs Can of CSA, can of Coopers Light Malt Extract, 500g Dried Malt Extract, 200g Dextrose, 15g Challenger Hops Dry hooped at primary and cultivated Coopers Yeast.

Will this bad boy improve and loose this sweetness with a bit more time. Conditioning I imagine will have slowed a heck of a lot with the cooler climate of winter. Hopefully i have nothing to worry about. Sweet is not good!

 

[RobboMC]

Named after my son who helped come up with the recipe, he wanted to put the whole second packet of DME in
I drew the line at half of the second 500g packet;

Simon's Killer Sparkling Ale

1.7kg Can CSA
1.5 kg can Coopers LDME
0.75kg Coopers DME
0.25 kg Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 (optional)
25g POR hops ( most of it boiled for while, didn't record how long sorry, a bit of it steeped in boiling water)

Ferment at 18 deg C for 12 days

Final abv 6.1%

Bottle condition for 3 months

This amount of malt would probably stand the whole 50g packet of POR.

 

[Spiderpig]

Cheers up Butters,

That's interesting, never considered you could do something like that. I might see how they are at 3 months and I might just give this procedure of yours a whirl. This place amazes me. Always great advice from brewers with loads of experience willing to share this on to us new guys. Love your work mate, thanks heaps.

 

[DKS]

Just read the specs on the morgan masterbrews cos I've never used them.....very interesting, indeed. If I'd have known about them at the time, I might have stuck with kits

Hi butters. I assume your an AGer and probably are set up to brew what ever you fancy.( maybe one day) For us K&Kers as you say its well worth having a look at this range. Last week I put a chocmalt one in a porter and a caramalt in a pils. As for price, $10 a 1kg can isnt bad, Im paying $8 a kg for plain dry malt. Add the hassle of boiling / steeping grain etc these are not a bad option to get a bit extra out of K&K. Thanks for you tips. :icon_cheers:
Daz

 

[whitegoose]

I'm planning on making this sparkling ale brew, a kinda CSA clone but not toooo concerned, i just want a nice beer. After reading through this thread I've come up with a recipe but I'm still not sure about the hopping...

Coopers Sparking Ale kit 1.7kg
Black Rock LLME 1.5kg
LDME 500g
Crystal 120 100g - steeped 30 minutes

Pride of Ringwood 30g @ 30 mins
Pride of Ringwood 10g @ 15 mins
Hallertauer 5g @ 1 mins

OG 1.052
FG 1.013
IBU 36.9
EBC 12.9
BU:GU 0.71

Does the hop schedule look ok? I've never used POR and I'm really not sure...

 

[buttersd70]

Does the hop schedule look ok? I've never used POR and I'm really not sure...

Depends on what the AA% of the hops are, and what the boil gravity will be....without that info, it's a bit like "how long is a string?"...

 

[whitegoose]

Depends on what the AA% of the hops are, and what the boil gravity will be....without that info, it's a bit like "how long is a string?"...

haha okay the POR I think are 8.6% and I was planning on just doing a standard 1.040 boil gravity

 

[whitegoose]

I'm planning on making this sparkling ale brew, a kinda CSA clone but not toooo concerned, i just want a nice beer. After reading through this thread I've come up with a recipe but I'm still not sure about the hopping...

Coopers Sparking Ale kit 1.7kg
Black Rock LLME 1.5kg
LDME 500g
Crystal 120 100g - steeped 30 minutes

Boil at 1.040
Pride of Ringwood (8.6%) 30g @ 30 mins
Pride of Ringwood (8.6%) 10g @ 15 mins
Hallertauer 5g (4.2%) @ 1 mins

OG 1.052
FG 1.013
IBU 36.9
EBC 12.9
BU:GU 0.71

Does the hop schedule look ok? I've never used POR and I'm really not sure...

Anyone? Does the hop schedule look ok? Too bitter?

 

[manticle]

You don't say what total volume you're making nor what boil volume you're doing (which has an impact on bitterness) but if you were making the standard 23 L with an 8 L boil, my calculations are:

IBU - 8 (very low, should be around 20 -40)
ABV - 6.7%
Colour - 14 HCU.

I use beer recipator.org. - free and easy. The only thing to watch is the boil volume as I've cocked it up before and come very close to bad hops miscalculations.

Your IBU says 36 so I'm not sure where the difference lies (most likely my mistake) but 36 should be dandy.

 

[Bribie G]

Commercially POR is used as a bittering hop and like many high alpha hops doesn't lend itself to late additions. I have made really nice Australian Style brews using just POR or Superpride just added to the beginning of the boil (currently drinking my way through an all grain Hunter old with 30g POR 60 mins and no other hops) which doesn't lack at all in the hops department. There is definite hop flavour, not just alpha acid happening here.

The hop in the kit will be basically isohop bittering and IMHO if you add extra bittering hops you will be getting too much. I haven't tried the Sparkling but I know that some Coopers kits are surprisingly bitter, for example the Real Ale, to start off with.

I would suggest no more than 20g for 30 mins or, even better, forget the extra POR because that's almost certainly what's going to be in the kit in iso form anyway and maybe just go for one addition of 20g of Cluster (the hop used in a few Lion Nathan brews such as XXXX and XXXX gold) for 20 mins for a true Aussie style hop note.

 

[manticle]

Can someone explain the difference a boil volume makes to hop extraction? Sorry to hijack the thread but I'd like to avoid making a new one if possible. I'm trying to do partials and making some nice brews but my hops calculations change depending on the boil volume and total volume ratio but in a way I don't understand. If I boil 30 g of hallertauer in 3 L of water and add 20 L of water to make 23 will that give me a different IBU to boiling 30 g of hallertauer in 15 L of water and adding 8 L to make 23 and why?

 

[DKS]

You don't say what total volume you're making nor what boil volume you're doing (which has an impact on bitterness) but if you were making the standard 23 L with an 8 L boil, my calculations are:

IBU - 8 (very low, should be around 20 -40)
ABV - 6.7%
Colour - 14 HCU.

I use beer recipator.org. - free and easy. The only thing to watch is the boil volume as I've cocked it up before and come very close to bad hops miscalculations.

Your IBU says 36 so I'm not sure where the difference lies (most likely my mistake) but 36 should be dandy.

Whitegoose
My calcs came out at IBU47 ECB 11.5 Theres about 21IBUs in the kit alone.That POR is high AA% too. Suggest rethink hop additions and recalc. Of coarse I could be way out also. :icon_cheers:
Daz

 

[buttersd70]

Can someone explain the difference a boil volume makes to hop extraction? Sorry to hijack the thread but I'd like to avoid making a new one if possible. I'm trying to do partials and making some nice brews but my hops calculations change depending on the boil volume and total volume ratio but in a way I don't understand. If I boil 30 g of hallertauer in 3 L of water and add 20 L of water to make 23 will that give me a different IBU to boiling 30 g of hallertauer in 15 L of water and adding 8 L to make 23 and why?

Manticle,
Your bittering is changing, not because of the boil volume per se, but because the changing boil volume is causing the boil gravity to change. In gooses case, because he is boiling in an extract based wort, he has the ability to manually change the gravity of the boil to whatever he wants (in this case 1040) by adding the right amount of extract for the volume being boiled, to achieve that gravity. With a partial, your boil gravity is dependent on more variables; for example, for two batches with the same amount of grain, at the same mash efficiency, but with more water used in the mash for one, the boil gravity will be different than if you used less water in the mash, because the extract created would be more dilute. One of the issues with most online calculators, also, is that there is no option for adding stuff post boil. Beersmith, for example, allows you the option of adding some of the extract to the boil, and letting it know that the rest will be added after the boil (and therefore will not be used in the bittering calculations). I think this might possibly be a big part of your issue. (oh, and there are different formulas for bittering; both promash and beersmith use the Tinseth calculations as a default, some of the online ones use different formulae, which will give a completely different figure).

whitegoose, basing on 23L, with a boil gravity of 1040...

I'm getting 26.5IBU in 23L, using tinseth in a 1040 boil. Plus the hopping from the kit, which coopers say is 490IBU = 25IBU to 32IBU (when calculated the coopers way), or 21IBU when just dividing by volume (which, fwiw, I think is probably more realistic). Calculated in Beersmith. So (using 21IBU for the kit) it looks like I'm getting 47IBU, same as DKS. Which would give you a BUGU of 0.90, which is way to high IMO.

If you want a BUGU of around 0.7, as you have said (which IMO is still too high for what it is, but if thats the BUGU you want), you would need 37IBU overall, so you would need 16IBU from the hops....
You could either;
lose the late addition, and change the bittering addition to a 18 min boil - 16.1 IBU; or
lose the late addition, and change the bittering addition to 22g for 30min boil - 16.0 IBU (which is probably the better option); or
keep the late addition, and change the bittering addition to 15g for 30 min boil - 15.6IBU