No Chill

[manticle]

day(s)

Plural?

This conversation could turn me into a cunticle again.

 

[Wolfy]

C'mon Wolfy, you know you hate cleaning out that plate chiller.

It's not been an issue yet.
I back-flush it with water - immediately after use - and recirculate boiling water prior to use.
If the mash tun or kettle get a sodium percarbonate (or maybe caustic) soak then I'll run that through the plate chiller too.

Plural?

This conversation could turn me into a cunticle again.

Weeks ... months ... never done for making beer myself so can't say which is more appropriate.
It might take many months for wort cubed at the start of an Australian summer to get down to 14C, which was done in 10 mins with the plate chiller.
... cunticle away.

 

[manticle]

If someone can't get a cube to 14 degrees in a day, they should take up knitting.

NC can wait for months but it's not a requirement.

 

[punkin]

Just to add to one of these populated threads myself.

I have found nochill to completely suit my brewing/fermenting/kegging/drinking system. Because i brew 4 kegs of beer at a time and only have 12 kegs and room for 6 cold, i have system issues.

I can chill my beer with my immersion chiller, takes close to two hours, put the 84 litres in a huge fermenter and then ferment and keg 4 kegs worth. This means a maximum of three or four types of beer at a time for my four taps. Also means i'm brewing often and brewing when i need to. ie as soon as i look like having four kegs spare at the end of two weeks fermenting time.

I now have 12 cubes. This means i cut two hours off my brew day, i use a 60l fermenter and ferment two cubes at a time. I can brew a couple days in a row if i feel like it and not brew for a month. I have a choice of beer from six spare kegs, six cold kegs or twelve cubes at any one time for fermenting or drinking. I can choose a beer and tip it straight to the lees from the last one and it's up and fermenting again straight away.


It's not without it's challenges for me either though. It took me quite a while (i'm still tweaking) to get hop utilisation to where my beers were as good as chilled beers to my taste. I tried 15 min subtractions etc but because i like highly aromatic hopped ales i was either getting bitterness issues or no hop flavour/aroma.

I solved the bitterness issues by chucking out all the advice about subtracting times from the hop additions and clicking the no chill button on Brewmate and retyping my recipes with the standard additions to equal the original ibu's, thus useing less hops. This fixes the bitterness issues, but obviously not the aroma issues.
I've ordered large tea balls for keg hopping and have been doing a lot of dryhopping.
I still need to learn the french press method for those beers that use flameout, but not dry hop. Like Ross's Summer ale. A fair favourite of mine with Nelson flowers.




So, while i don't think no chill is better, it certainly does suit me better. :icon_chickcheers:

 

[sponge]

As usual in these discussions, different methods suit different brewers, and all can use their methods to compensate for any difference in outcome.

BIAB/3V/HERMS/RIMS.... they all make great beer, and can all make horrible beer if not treated correctly. Its up to the individual to use their system to acheive the best results possible from it.

Similarly with plate chilling/immersion chilling/no chilling. Each has their pro's and con's, and its down to the individual brewer to see what works best for him/her.

Experiment and decide for yourself. thats the advantage of this glorious hobby.

I am a no chiller due to only being able to ferment one beer at a time in the fridge, and only having a 2 keg fridge for serving. Its what I get for living in an apartment atm. When I get a bigger house with more keg/fermenting space and a water tank, I will most probably go down the chilling path as I won't be wasting water using a water tank... but that's still a couple of years away yet :icon_cheers:


Sponge

 

[Bats]

My 2c.

I have used both and find NC suits me better.

I had an Immersion Chiller but got rid of it once I started NC as I did not notice a difference and NC suited my setup much better.

Now I NC into cubes that fit into my fermenting fridge much easier. When cooled enough (overnight), I attach a MixStir to my battery drill and aerate for around 4 or 5 mins.

I then pitch and put the cap back on the cube. Tighten the cap before backing off a couple of turns to vent Co2. I believe Manticle is a big fan of this method of cube fermenting.

I found this works really well and minimises exposure to badness.

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

<snip>
BIAB/3V/HERMS/RIMS.... they all make great beer, and can all make horrible beer if not treated correctly. Its up to the individual to use their system to acheive the best results possible from it.

Similarly with plate chilling/immersion chilling/no chilling. Each has their pro's and con's, and its down to the individual brewer to see what works best for him/her.</snip>

italics, mine.

One of the most sensible things said on this forum in a long time. Even if he did forget 2V.

 

[QldKev]

There's many threads about nochill for a lot more info.

I nochill / slowchill cause it suits me, like punkin I have 12 nochill cubes and brew larger batches to fill multiple cubes so I don't have to brew as often. I still use the normal 25L Bunnings fermenters so I can be fermenting what ever looks good at the time, plus I'm too slack to carry the big fermenter around.

Do I prefer the hop aroma from a chilled beer, yes.

I've tried the 10 min APA, and found there was still a lack of fresh hop aroma, and and over kill of hop flavour which made the beer one dimensional killing a lot of the malt profile.


Has anyone tried the liquid hops to add some fresh aroma back to a no chill brew? I know what the sterotype says of the hops, but has anyone actually tried it? Seems a pretty convenient way to throw some in at kegging time.


QldKev

 

[sponge]

[quote name='Mike L'Itorus' post='942866' date='Aug 9 2012, 09:58 AM']italics, mine.

One of the most sensible things said on this forum in a long time. Even if he did forget 2V. [/quote]

And 1V

But the general idea is there... There's also the slow chill and most probably a few other methods not been mentioned.

All in all, do the best you can with what you have, and you can tweak from there.

You can never have too much tweaking

 

[bum]

Similarly with plate chilling/immersion chilling/no chilling. Each has their pro's and con's, and its down to the individual brewer to see what works best for him/her.

In terms of beer quality, I'd be interested to see what cons chillers might like to put forward for their method. The cons for NC in this regard are well documented but I've never really seen a chiller say "Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but [insert potential for negative impact on the beer]".

 

[sponge]

Possibly not beer quality, just having to have a fermenter and yeast/starter ready to go.

Beer quality wouldn't really be coming into play with that, only really the time/convenience factor.

 

[Acasta]

In terms of beer quality, I'd be interested to see what cons chillers might like to put forward for their method. The cons for NC in this regard are well documented but I've never really seen a chiller say "Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but [insert potential for negative impact on the beer]".

One of the cons I find when chilling is that I feel that I need to pitch yeast rather quickly, as I'm not confident putting cold wort into a cube/fermenter for storage. If preparing a starter or something, it's harder to spontaneously make a batch without a few days of yeast prep.
Obviously using dry yeast would eliminate this concern.

 

[Mike L'Itorus]

In terms of beer quality, I'd be interested to see what cons chillers might like to put forward for their method. The cons for NC in this regard are well documented but I've never really seen a chiller say "Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but [insert potential for negative impact on the beer]".

Chillers are compelled to pitch soon after brewing. No chillers are not. Not everyone works a 9-5 M-F situation. Some people need to squeeze brewing activities in where they can, and sometimes this is at short notice....so some ppl may NC, because they can't guarantee having a pitchable amount of viable yeast available when they brew. I often get time off at very short notice; If I used chilling as my only option, then I would not be able to brew on many of these occasions, due to not having fresh yeast on hand or a starter prepared. NC allows me to take the advantage of the unexpected time, and worry about the yeast later.

An extrapolation on this is time off...last time I had time off work (2weeks), I brewed a double batch, and chilled it. I pitched it straight away. The following day, I brewed another double (NC); 2 days later, another double (NC). A few days later, a single (NC)....filling all 5 cubes, before the 2 fermenters were finished. (why 5? Funny number. I need to buy another cube.). Anyway, there is no way I could have brewed this much in this timeframe (and been able to ferment with temp control) if I was purely chilling. Turns out that after this, I was working like a maniac for the next few months, and didn't have time to brew at all.....but that was OK. Cos I had the cubes there, ready to pitch at my convenience, and all I had to do was starters.

Another con of chilling / pro of no chilling is that, in the case of ppl that have capacity to ferment 2 fermenters at the same time, you can stagger your fermentation schedule (ie ferment 2 different beers at the same time) without having to brew 2 in a row. Allows for constant variety on tap, without having to adjust your brewing to suit.

That being said, I use both methods. Depends on my needs at the time. Each is equally valid, imo.




edit...such a long time spent typing, yeast pitching timeframe was brought up by squarepants and acasta.

edit v2: to complete the sentance proposed;

"Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but [insert potential for negative impact on the beer]".

"Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but sometimes it's a pain in the arse having to pitch right away".

"Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but sometimes it's good to be able, when I have time to brew, to get a stockpile of readily pitchable wort for those periods when I don't have time to brew".

And to directly address the question, as asked.

"Yeah, I really like being able to pitch right away but [insert potential for negative impact on the beer] I keep getting wild yeast infections. I think it's to do with all the teletubbie trees around here, that are constantly in flower. I get one whenever I chill, no matter how anal I am in relation to cleaning and sanitation....Although, when I NC, I don't have that problem. So I'm fairly certain that the infection issue is coming in to play in my brew area, in the time between my wort dropping below pasteurisation temps, and the time tht the yeast is fully active and outracing whatever is causing the issue".

this last one...dramatics? no, not really. It's reasonably common, even among seasoned brewers. A few months back, BeerFingers (may he rest in peace, and never be forgotten. :icon_cheers: ) had this very same scenario. A few years ago (long time lurker ) Chappo had exactly the same. And there are many, many others....
If nothing else, it points to infection issues occuring between start of chill and high krausen, NC was not the cure, as such, in either of these cases. But, it did help pinpoint where in the process the problem was occuring.

But I think I've belaboured the point more than enough.

Just to reitterate: I use both methods, and both are equally valid, when weighed up with reason and intention.

 

[sean_0]

I use both methods too, and both have their advantages. When I do chill I try to do another batch straight away and use the now warm water from the chiller to mash in the next batch. This way I'm not wasting water and I save a good 20 mins or so of mash water heating time on the second batch. The second batch is then cubed.

 

[Florian]

Has anyone tried the liquid hops to add some fresh aroma back to a no chill brew? I know what the sterotype says of the hops, but has anyone actually tried it? Seems a pretty convenient way to throw some in at kegging time.

I've done a German Pils which was exclusively bittered and 'aromaed' with liquid hops, no actual pellets or flowers were used. I've thrown it into the Qld case swap and a few comps with some good reviews/results. Personally I didn't like the beer but that had more to do with a yeast issue than the hop oils.

I might actually try that again with some american hop oils in the future if they're available.

I still sometimes use the 'bittering oil' on beers where I have missed the mark slightly. Preferably before filtering as it introduces a slight haze into the beer.

 

[bum]

Are you sure? The only time in that whole thing you even tried to address my question you ended it with a bold and underlined point indicating that it was ultimately irrelevant too.

 

[beerdrinkingbob]

I think both are great...

Lately with a little one ( 6 months) no chill has been the only reason my kegs have anything in them :beerbang:

 

[bum]

@Bum - What exactly is the negative in terms of beer quality in regards to NC? All I can think of is that hop aroma and sometimes flavour is different. Is that all you are referring to?

You gotta be shitting me.

 

[Bizier]

I NC for non-hop forward beers, and chill beers where I am going to try to emphasise the late hop.

I enjoy that I can brew a three (potentially four) keg batch and use them as I need just to get beer on tap. I do really also appreciate that if things go pear shaped, you are still pasteurising the F*** out of your wort and you can pitch when the yeast is ready and make a good job of the ferment.

 

[Wolfy]

... I do really also appreciate that if things go pear shaped, you are still pasteurising the F*** out of your wort and you can pitch when the yeast is ready and make a good job of the ferment.

At present I'm lucky enough to be able to do it the other way around - let the yeast dictate when to brew. Once the starter is good and ready and the yeast has started to settler-out, it's time to brew.