No Chill

[black_labb]

I would be interested in your experience and the theory. I haven't brewed with no-chill. All theory leads to DMS build up during slow cooling of wort, especially with malts that known for producing lot sof it such as lightly kilned pils malts.

I have experienced plasticiser leaching from HDPE containers in light (style) lagers. I now brew in stainless steel.

For a bit I was filling the cube within a few minutes of flameout and would let the trub settle in the cube to be siphoned off when pitching the yeast. There was no issue with dms at all. Most were using ale malt but some were 90%+ pils and there was no issue with dms (or any other issue despite breaking that many rules doing things that way). I've stopped that now because of concerns of staling compounds that may be transmitted between trub and wort, though I never noticed any issues.

There are alot of brewers that approach different techniques in the same way they look at someone brewing a homebrand lager kit with a kilo of castor sugar in the heat of summer on a heat pad. Brewing can be done a number of ways all with good results.

 

[manticle]

My plasticiser problem came from the early days when I was using an esky for mashing, it did get old before I tossed it. I use normal HDPE fermenters and they start breaking down after a while as well, I'm thinking of going Better Bottle here which I think is PET

The interesting thing here is that your experience of plastic tastes in your brew didn't come from cubing/no chilling so much as degradation of plastic (and plastics are prone to degradation, accelerated especially by UV light).

Plastic in the brewery may be more of an issue than No chill. As an aside, I know heat accelerates reactions so there is potential there, I'll grant. Just haven't noted it myself yet and do know that NC is widespread both in AU and overseas (US is starting to catch on: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-...brewing-117111/ )

Anyway the challenge is on.

I brew by seasons at the moment so I don't have time to get a 100% pils based lager down before the weather becomes perfect for UK bitter brewing but I have an oktoberfest and a bo pils with a touch of munich just going into lagering phase. Ready some time around October/November maybe.

Happy to trade a bottle with you to see if you can spot DMS or plastic once they are ready. Exchange for a No chill lager in Stainless steel or failing that but for the love of science: honest feedback.

 

[Nick JD]

Are there plasticisers in HDPE?

 

[sama]

http://www.squidoo.com/dangerous_plastics


this guy leads me to believe were doomed!doomed i say

 

[kelbygreen]

HD Polyethylene #2 is the more durable of the two. However these plastics may leach when exposed to UV, heat and over time from natural breakdown.

lol not a good sign but I use aluminum pot and I am umm what was I saying???

 

[sama]

is it that the levels of toxin at say 90c are minuscule or non existant?will there be a build up in the body with continual exposure ...meg I'm going for a smoke and to make some calls on my mobile...

 

[sama]

ps you can find the answer that suits you on the internet if you look hard enough ,who to believe!

 

[kelbygreen]

thats ok these are the hazards:
asthma
birth defects
cancer
chronic bronchitis
deafness
diabetes
genetic changes
hyperactivity
indigestion
infertility
liver dysfunction
obesity
skin diseases
skin rashes
ulcers
vision failure

must be why I am obese lol cant be the beer must be the plastic

 

[manticle]

I don't know. I just ate a small child.

Plastic made me do it.

 

[sama]

i just made a small child.not using plastic made me do it

 

[black_labb]

plastics tend to be lumped into a single category. Kind of like saying that stainless steel is dangerous because it is metal as is lead and therefore using a stainless steel kettle you will get lead into your beer.

 

[felten]

My favourite part is where he says you shouldn't drink tap water because of bacteria, chlorine, flouride and maybe radioactive material.

The fox news report he links to only increases his credibility.

 

[Yob]

thats ok these are the hazards:
asthma
birth defects
cancer
chronic bronchitis
deafness
diabetes
genetic changes
hyperactivity
indigestion
infertility
liver dysfunction
obesity
skin diseases
skin rashes
ulcers
vision failure

must be why I am obese lol cant be the beer must be the plastic

you left out the Big B..

 

[Crusty]

Thst's very interesting. As I started brewing many years ago and all my information came from America in the early days of USENET I came to expect that their principals are the norm. My home brewery and brewing techniques are based around the American ideas because of this.
Although I'm unlikely to change my brewery or techniques now I am quite established it is refreshing to know that perhaps some of these old schools of thought are somewhat outdated so for that I thank you.
My plasticiser problem came from the early days when I was using an esky for mashing, it did get old before I tossed it. I use normal HDPE fermenters and they start breaking down after a while as well, I'm thinking of going Better Bottle here which I think is PET

It's quite easy to follow a technique that's tried & tested as you should expect the same results. We all get bogged down in our own way of doing things & sometimes neglect to understand that others may think outside the box. Brew in a bag & no chill is a perfect example of what almost every brewer in the past would deem to be a failure, attempting to brew an all grain full volume mash with no sparge & heavens forbid, slowly chilling your wort (no chill) This is a fantastic way to brew & will make just as good a beer as any other method of brewing. Efficiency is another example of people assuming you will not get good extraction with a full volume mash & no sparge. I got 86% into fermenter efficiency with my last APA, 23lt @1.048.
I am not surprised you got some plastic problems with the old esky mash tun. HDPE will not give you those problems you speak of.

 

[Andyd]

If anyone's interested in playing around and adding an ounce of science to the argument, at ANHCthree we will be doing a three-way collaborative experiment with Basic Brewing Radio's James Spencer and BYO's Chris Colby to play various chilling methods off against one another.

Check out the pages episode of BBR for more details, and we'll get some more details up on the conference website to that you can play along.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[kieran]

Better? No.

 

[Crusty]

Better? No.

I thinks it's heaps better.
No wasted water, no waiting for over half an hour to drop wort to pitching temp, no deadline of when to ferment & your all done.
It's way better. I used a wort chiller for a few years before doing no chill & the resulting beer is exactly the same, just so much less mucking around. Ferment at your leisure, too easy.

 

[Wolfy]

I thinks it's heaps better.
No wasted water, no waiting for over half an hour to drop wort to pitching temp, no deadline of when to ferment & your all done.
It's way better. I used a wort chiller for a few years before doing no chill & the resulting beer is exactly the same, just so much less mucking around. Ferment at your leisure, too easy.

Last brew day my plate chiller dropped a kettle full of 100deg wort to 14 in about 10 mins so it's 'heaps better' than having to wait day(s) to pitch yeast.

 

[Crusty]

Last brew day my plate chiller dropped a kettle full of 100deg wort to 14 in about 10 mins so it's 'heaps better' than having to wait day(s) to pitch yeast.

This time of the year it's no too bad. I only had an immersion chiller & relied on ambient water temp which was a real struggle to get below 25deg or so. I did on a few occasions resort to an esky with iced water but compared to no chill, well it's no chill by a long shot for me, regardless of the season. For me, it meant extra time to get the wort temp down enough to pitch & sometimes this would add at least an hour to my brew day. I still think no chill is way better in my circumstance than what I was doing previously.
C'mon Wolfy, you know you hate cleaning out that plate chiller.

 

[emnpaul]

My favourite part is where he says you shouldn't drink tap water because of bacteria, chlorine, flouride and maybe radioactive material.

The FAUX news report he links to only increases his credibility.

Fixed.