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luvbeer

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Hi there,

Just wanted to get some experienced opinions on no chill brewing. It's probably been spoken about before though i have had trouble finding threads. I have just started experimenting with this method whilst keeping a close eye on the hop addition times and have had good results so far, though i was specifically interested in the healthy aging of the beers(good or bad) in comparison to conventional chilling. Seems too good to be true!?
 

Wolfy

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i was specifically interested in the healthy aging of the beers(good or bad) in comparison to conventional chilling.
It's only wort until you pitch yeast and it becomes beer.
Are you asking about how long you can keep the wort in the no-chill container, how the hops change compared to conventional chilling, or something else?
 

luvbeer

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It's only wort until you pitch yeast and it becomes beer.
Are you asking about how long you can keep the wort in the no-chill container, how the hops change compared to conventional chilling, or something else?
Hi, thanks
how long of life in cube, does temp of wort storage matter, do hops fade faster in hoppy beers, is it more likely to spoil faster, do the hops change in the later additions(aroma hop additions), is it better or just easier? thanks
 

WarmBeer

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There was a recent Basic Brewing Radio episode (5th July 2012) where a couple of homebrewers had brewed the same beer, cubed half and chilled the other half.

In a blind-triangle tasting test, none of the judges (admittedly, I don't know their judging credentials) could tell the difference with any statistical significance.
 

Cortez The Killer

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how long of life in cube, does temp of wort storage matter, do hops fade faster in hoppy beers, is it more likely to spoil faster, do the hops change in the later additions(aroma hop additions), is it better or just easier?
Some people have kept wort sealed in a cube for 12 months +

I haven't read anything to say what effect storage temp has but I would not be exposing my cubes to extreme temps

I've not experienced any spoilage in my beers

My typical hopping schedule is 60min, 10min and a flameout addition then I give it a good stir and let sit for 5-10 min before transferring to cube - this has really improved the hop presence in my beers

I was experimenting with hops straight into the cube but was getting grassy flavours

You can make awesome beers by chilling and by no chilling

Though you must expect some effect on the hops from no chilling as compared to chilling and as such you will need to compensate, be it with a hop tea or increasing the aroma addition etc

I personally use no chill for the convenience

Cheers
 

Bribie G

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I hope RdeVjun isn't reading this but last October we did a brew day - Russian Imperial Stout - and it's still in the cube. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'll get round to pitching it soon, I promise. I expect it's as good, if not better, than the day it was cubed.

I normally pitch within a couple of days, but have kept (and eventually pitched) worts for up to 2 months. After all, Fresh Wort Kits are just no chill worts and keep for a year or more.
 

Wolfy

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how long of life in cube, does temp of wort storage matter, do hops fade faster in hoppy beers, is it more likely to spoil faster, do the hops change in the later additions(aroma hop additions), is it better or just easier? thanks
I don't think you'll much of any scientific or published answers to most your questions, because storing unfermented wort is simply not feasible or economic for a commercial brewery. The shelf-life of fresh-wort-kits should give you some idea on how long it's possible to store it, however I'm sure that home brewers would suggest it could be kept longer and is likely better when used fresher. So with most answers to your questions, they're going to be subjective.

It's cheap because you do not need to buy a wort-cooler and its easy because all you have to do is fill the cube full and squeeze out the air, it's also convenient because you don't have to ferment the wort right after brewing it. Those factors alone might make it 'better' and 'easier' for some home brewers. But that does not make it 'easier' than chilling beer directly into the fermentor and being able to pitch yeast and ferment immediately and it does not make it 'better' than chilling the wort quickly and having the volatile hop aromas and flavours 'fixed' into the beer (without having to worry or adjust things for how they might change in the hot-cube)

Many would also argue that quickly chilling the beer produces (better) cold break and that is something that can help produce 'better' beer, however equally, some will suggest that is not relevant and their no-chill beer is just as good (or better).
After all, Fresh Wort Kits are just no chill worts and keep for a year or more.
I was curious about that, do they no-chill FWK or are they chilled before cubing?
 

Gavo

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I hope RdeVjun isn't reading this but last October we did a brew day - Russian Imperial Stout - and it's still in the cube. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'll get round to pitching it soon, I promise. I expect it's as good, if not better, than the day it was cubed.

I normally pitch within a couple of days, but have kept (and eventually pitched) worts for up to 2 months. After all, Fresh Wort Kits are just no chill worts and keep for a year or more.
I did something similar to this, I had a double batch of Oktoberfest I brewed July last year. One I fermented straight away and the other I fermented out February this year; both were good if not the same.
I also have a chiller and use both methods depending on yeast availability and if I have the wort and time to make a starter.
 

Bribie G

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snip
I was curious about that, do they no-chill FWK or are they chilled before cubing?
I expect Ross, the current king of FWK would be able to advise.
 

Rowy

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I expect Ross, the current king of FWK would be able to advise.

I expect that Ralph will be keen to provide advice on getting that RIS out into the pishab and throwing some yeasties in! :rolleyes:
 

Florian

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I was curious about that, do they no-chill FWK or are they chilled before cubing?
Yep, that's what they do, at least down at Bacchus Brewing. I'm sure all others do the same. I think if you're transferring chilled wort you'd be asking for trouble, even if you expell all air. You certainly wouldn't have a use by of two years.

EDIT: beaten by a few...
 

manticle

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It's probably been spoken about before though i have had trouble finding threads.
Really?

Not having a go - just surprised. It's been discussed, sometimes dispassionately, sometimes passionately many times here before.

Neither method is better per se - they are just different.

I NC pretty much exclusively but I have tried a side by side brew - half cubed, half plate chilled of a recipe I am familiar with. Quite a hoppy one so I could discern what effect it might have for my own palate.

Definitely not a conclusive experiment in terms of its design but I and other brewers in blind tasting (not triangle and they did know one was NC and one chilled - just not which) found distinct differences in bittering, flavour and aroma. Neither was better - both were tasty beers but the differences were there. NC was more bitter but strangely was picked as having better hop aroma. I designed the recipe around NC so if I were to start chilling, I would actually up the bittering to match the NC.

Some people alter their hop addditions (amounts and/or timing). I don't but as I design all my own recipes and I no-chill, I don't need to. IBU for HB is theoretical anyway so I need to know what I like.

For me it's about convenience and water saving mainly. I also like the fact that I can make a starter from the same wort and pitch when it's ready. If something goes wong with the starter, I can hold off pitching.

I have bought a plate chiller so that I can truly sit on the fence - just not set it up yet. Intend to chill some and NC others.

I don't keep wort for a long time so I can't answer that. FWK as suggested has a long shelf life. I brewed a Rochefort 10 homage with Vitalstatistix last August and my half has been bulk aging in a demijohn since it hit FG. His is still in the cube so it will be interesting to compare if I have any left by the time his is aged and bottled.

Another advantage is communal brewing - for example we will brew 7 or 8 cubes Saturday week at the Vic Case swap. Seal her up and each contributing person gets to take one away to ferment at home.
 

Bribie G

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Apart from the simplicity, a big advantage of no-chilling is that it "decouples" the brew day from the need to pitch the brew immediately.

So you can brew like a maniac and build up a stash of wort cubes, then ferment at your leisure.

However this is turning into YET another "why no chill" thread.

Nuff said.
 

Crusty

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Apart from the simplicity, a big advantage of no-chilling is that it "decouples" the brew day from the need to pitch the brew immediately.

So you can brew like a maniac and build up a stash of wort cubes, then ferment at your leisure.

However this is turning into YET another "why no chill" thread.

Nuff said.
I like the simplicity & the leisurely approach of fermenting when I feel like doing so.
It's really good to end the brew day with filling the cube & the days done. Ferment the next day, week, month or whenever you feel like it.
 

stux

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I don't think you'll much of any scientific or published answers to most your questions, because storing unfermented wort is simply not feasible or economic for a commercial brewery. The shelf-life of fresh-wort-kits should give you some idea on how long it's possible to store it, however I'm sure that home brewers would suggest it could be kept longer and is likely better when used fresher. So with most answers to your questions, they're going to be subjective.

It's cheap because you do not need to buy a wort-cooler and its easy because all you have to do is fill the cube full and squeeze out the air, it's also convenient because you don't have to ferment the wort right after brewing it. Those factors alone might make it 'better' and 'easier' for some home brewers. But that does not make it 'easier' than chilling beer directly into the fermentor and being able to pitch yeast and ferment immediately and it does not make it 'better' than chilling the wort quickly and having the volatile hop aromas and flavours 'fixed' into the beer (without having to worry or adjust things for how they might change in the hot-cube)

Many would also argue that quickly chilling the beer produces (better) cold break and that is something that can help produce 'better' beer, however equally, some will suggest that is not relevant and their no-chill beer is just as good (or better).

I was curious about that, do they no-chill FWK or are they chilled before cubing?
They are filled hot.

They really are just no-chill worts.

Interestingly, I've fermented a the 2nd cube of a double batch NC wort 12 months after the first cube, and 14 months after the brew day, and I swear it was awesomer than the original! Just seemed smoother...

But who's to tell.

I then did a fresh batch the next month of the same recipe and was quite happy with the consistency compared to the earlier brew, considering the first one was made on different equipment :)
 

RdeVjun

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I hope RdeVjun isn't reading this but last October we did a brew day - Russian Imperial Stout - and it's still in the cube. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'll get round to pitching it soon, I promise. I expect it's as good, if not better, than the day it was cubed.

I normally pitch within a couple of days, but have kept (and eventually pitched) worts for up to 2 months. After all, Fresh Wort Kits are just no chill worts and keep for a year or more.
I remember that brewday well Bribie! I have a few longer- term cubed worts myself now, so I did take home something from the day. Expecting the three months in storage will do nothing at all negative to the few bitters I have set aside, waiting for me to finally sort my fermenting fridge out after the move(s).
 

wakkatoo

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So you can brew like a maniac and build up a stash of wort cubes, then ferment at your leisure
Yep, that's me. Brewed once a week for the past 6 weeks. Only have 1 temp controlled fridge so the cubes sit there waiting their turn. Have 1 more brew to do then take a break for a while. Other hobbies need my attention: veggie garden, bees, hops, orchard!!
 

Thirsty Boy

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No chill cubes will of course age - is that age going to be good "aging" or bad "getting old" ... question really?

Things will oxidise, they must - hop bittering products will fall out of solution, they must - will old wort be different to new wort, it must.

Better or worse? who knows.

If you want your wort to maintain as closely as possible the condition it was in when you put it in the cube, store it as cold and as dark as you can.
 
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