No-Chill transfer temperature

[DaveGillespie]

I'm about to try my first No-Chill brew next week and was wondering what the accepted wisdom is regarding the temperature your wort should be at when it is transferred to the cube. I see a lot of people whirlpool then transfer and this also plays into my usual hop schedule for the first beer I'm brewing which involves a hop steep at 80C for an hour. Would it be ok to transfer onto cube hops when the wort is approaching 80C? Is this hot enough to sanitize the inside of the cube?

 

[Florian]

can't be assed googling pasteurisation temps and times right know but I think you're cutting it fine. ideal is somewhere mid 80ies for a set time from memory but others will confirm.

my magic transfer temp used to be 93C when I used to do no chill. enough time for stuff to settle out on my system and still hot enough for proper long term storage.

what's this recipe you're talking about with a 1 hour hop steep? are you planning to steep in the kettle and therefore keep the temp at 80 for the hour?
you could always ramp up to a safer transfer temp after that if you're indeed steeping in the kettle.

 

[kelbygreen]

a hop steep for a hour at 80c? thats a odd addition as normally you would chill it as soon as you whirlpool on a normal brew without No Chill.

What I would do is once you flame out wait about 10mins or till most of the convection stops then whirlpool I would add your hops to the cube and then after another 10mins after you whirlpooled (when worts clear) transfer it to the cubes. I mean when your No Chilling your kinda stuck with late additions, Though if you had a pool or something you could throw them in there to try cool them quicker if its possible.

Post your recipe as a steep for a hour is a very strange term I have never heard of and steeping hops is usually a term for Kit and kilo not all grain so its a bit confusing what you mean whether you mean boil for a hour as in bittering or late additions which is flavor and aroma

 

[DaveGillespie]

Just to clarify - the steep is part of the recipe as I've done it the last 5 times I've brewed it whilst chilling my wort in the bath. I've experimented with the length of time for the steep at 20 mintues, 45 minutes and 1 hour and found that the 1 hour steep works best. I'm wondering how that translates to a no chill setup - I was dubious about transferring at any temperature below around 90 and wanted some clarification. Recipe as previously brewed was:

23L brew length, 1.044 OG
4.5kg Maris Otter

60 Minute bittering addition to whatever it takes to make up the IBU to 35 after accounting for the late hops
5 minutes - 30 to 50 grams of hops (have done this with 30g of Flyer a couple of times and a couple of times with 25g EKG & 25g Cascade)
Steep - same again as the 5 minute addition, for 1 hour once wort his 80C.

 

[hwall95]

Too be honest, I'm not sure about what temperatures I no chill at, but usually I end boil, left for a few minutes, whirlpool, sit for a few minutes- figure out/add cube hops and then transfer. Generally by then, the wort is pretty clear and still quite hot. After I have filled my two little cubes I make sure all sides of the cubes are coated and then I chuck them into the fridge at whatever temperature I aim to ferment at and then pitch the following afternoon. I account for cube hops as 15 minute additions and so far the bitterness has seemed accurate to me. IMO the best way to figure it out is just to go for it based on what you've decided is the best method and then learn from that. I spent ages planning and reading different methods but as soon as you do it for the first time, it's completely different and you gain a far better understanding. You get a fair wack of hop flavour and aroma from cube hopping and anymore you can add with dry hopping IMO. If you do a batch and are not happy with it, there seems to be quite a few methods regarding hop tea and mini boils that seem to fix that - although I'm yet to try them. Good luck!

 

[DaveGillespie]

I think I might just roll the dice and go with one 60 minute addition and shove the rest in the cube.

 

[Florian]

After I have filled my two little cubes I make sure all sides of the cubes are coated and then I chuck them into the fridge at whatever temperature I aim to ferment at and then pitch the following afternoon.

Just pointing it out in case you don't know this:

'Best practice' would be to keep the cubes at ambient temp rather then putting them in the fridge. The idea is that the cubes sit as long as possible at temps as high as possible to pasteurise the wort. By reducing the chilling time you may also reduce the the pasteurisation efforts, therefore in theory possibly putting your wort 'at risk'.
Same applies to pool no chilling which I have also done myself.

As I said, just pointing out the original idea behind no chill, you make of it want you want.

 

[hwall95]

Just pointing it out in case you don't know this:

'Best practice' would be to keep the cubes at ambient temp rather then putting them in the fridge. The idea is that the cubes sit as long as possible at temps as high as possible to pasteurise the wort. By reducing the chilling time you may also reduce the the pasteurisation efforts, therefore in theory possibly putting your wort 'at risk'.
Same applies to pool no chilling which I have also done myself.

As I said, just pointing out the original idea behind no chill, you make of it want you want.

Okay cheers Florian, will have to try it to see the difference. I'm yet to see or taste any noticeable signs of infections due to no chilling but I am curious to cool it ambiently now; I assume it will be more bitter, but only slightly.

 

[manticle]

Mine gets transferred around 80. Well hot enough for pasteurisation, especially into a sanitised, clean, sealed vessel.
The wort has been pasteurised by being boiled for 60 + minutes so essentially you are using hot wort to sanitise the inside surface area of your vessel. Food flash pasteurisation temps are low 70s (71-74) for around 15 seconds. This is how hot and how long the target of pasteurisation needs to be.

However running hot wort into a cube with hops in it will surely hot steep the hops, pasteurise the cube and allow you to seal it all up so why leave the wort exposed to dust and air?

Main reason not to chuck in fridge is the stress you will place on the fridge motors for a fairly inefficient way of cooling the wort.

 

[mckenry]

Just to clarify - the steep is part of the recipe as I've done it the last 5 times I've brewed it whilst chilling my wort in the bath. I've experimented with the length of time for the steep at 20 mintues, 45 minutes and 1 hour and found that the 1 hour steep works best. I'm wondering how that translates to a no chill setup - I was dubious about transferring at any temperature below around 90 and wanted some clarification. Recipe as previously brewed was:

23L brew length, 1.044 OG
4.5kg Maris Otter

60 Minute bittering addition to whatever it takes to make up the IBU to 35 after accounting for the late hops
5 minutes - 30 to 50 grams of hops (have done this with 30g of Flyer a couple of times and a couple of times with 25g EKG & 25g Cascade)
Steep - same again as the 5 minute addition, for 1 hour once wort his 80C.

How are you keeping your wort at 80°C for 1 hour?
If I was you, I would drain to the cube when it hits 80°C (if thats your favourite temp for steeping hops) then add the hops and seal up.
I dont No chill unless I am doing a lager, so no late hops, but when I used cube hops, if I added wort to hops I got a lot of froth up. If I added hops to wort, no problem. YMMV.
80°C will be fine.

 

[Blind Dog]

Mine gets transferred at between 80 and 85. I've found that if I treat hop additions in the last 20 minutes of the boil as being added 15 minutes earlier and cube hops as a 20 minute steep (beersmith default setting to calc IBUs) the bitterness in the final beer is about spot on.

Cube is sanitised with starsan and then rinsed with 2l or so of boiling water before the wort goes in.

And this:

The wort has been pasteurised by being boiled for 60 + minutes so essentially you are using hot wort to sanitise the inside surface area of your vessel.

 

[DaveGillespie]

I'm not holding the wort at 80C - kettle is submerged in the bath which is filled with cold water. Once it hits 80, it's out of the bath, hops into the kettle and kettle stands at 80C for an hour, then its back into the bath.

For the first go I reckon I'll whirlpool for 10 minutes after flameout, transfer then add the hops into the cube once transferred. We'll see how it goes and if the aroma isn't up to scratch, try the next go at around 85C. Just have to remember to record the transfer temperature the first time

 

[manticle]

Surely you're daying kettle/wort is out of the bath at 80 then held at 80 for an hour? Certainly the way it's written above, that's the inference to be drawn. How is the heat in the kettle maintained at that point?