Diggs
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Not sure what you're getting at Practical
No Chill - Possible Airborne Yeast?
- Thread starter Diggs
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Not sure what you're getting at Practical
pk.sax
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You cannot sterilise the inside of a cube that big with that much liquid. The heat transfer through the air is terrible. The energy just excites the air particles and that is it.
This is why they survived. This is why it fermented.
Cubing is about sterilisation (to a degree), not sanitising.
This is why they survived. This is why it fermented.
Cubing is about sterilisation (to a degree), not sanitising.
pk.sax
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You aren't paying attention to everything, cubing is sterilisation.
Not sanitising. Starsan and bleach are both sanitisers. They 'reduce' the chance of infection. Not eliminate it. Read up on it, you need to fill it full of boiling (or close to) liquid. Wort is excellent as it is viscous and has heaps of trapped heat which makes for an extended exposure of all bugs in there to that temperature. (viscous materials heat up slower but retain that heat longer and conduct it better too, particles in the material are closer, meaning less is wasted).
Just brew a bigger batch or use a smaller cube.
Not sanitising. Starsan and bleach are both sanitisers. They 'reduce' the chance of infection. Not eliminate it. Read up on it, you need to fill it full of boiling (or close to) liquid. Wort is excellent as it is viscous and has heaps of trapped heat which makes for an extended exposure of all bugs in there to that temperature. (viscous materials heat up slower but retain that heat longer and conduct it better too, particles in the material are closer, meaning less is wasted).
Just brew a bigger batch or use a smaller cube.
RdeVjun
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No- Chill is a success when the sealed container has been effectively sterilized* by near- boiling wort. If you don't completely fill it or ensure that the entire interior surface has been subjected to sufficient heat for long enough to render all microorganisms dead then the process fails and growth becomes evident later with krausen and a bulging cube, as was the case for the OP. That does not necessarily mean the cube must be completely filled for the technique to succeed- air/ head space in the cube is no problem at all provided that every surface has been effectively heat- treated.
To do this, of course the cube should be cleaned and sanitised, add the wort then seal it, turn the cube on its side and rotate a few times as it cools to ensure complete heat treatment over all surfaces. When treated this way the cube will develop some pressure, with the air that does remain sometimes the contraction on cooling is excessive but after a few goes you soon a feel for closing it with some air present and not ending up with a collapsed cube which may rupture at a fold. A tap can be fitted though, it is jolly handy when emptying or even fermenting in the cube but it is also quite helpful for relieving the pressure that builds up in the initial cooling phase while it is rotated and moved around. You don't need to evacuate all that air, particularly if the cube is far from full, however partly- filling a cube and not treating every surface effectively is unfortunately likely to fail, so I recommend using a tap.
However, the lower the volume of wort in the cube then the lower the area that can be treated before the wort temperature becomes ineffective. The interior of the cube (plus the lid, seal and tap if fitted) has to be heated with near- boiling wort for some time to render any bugs present as good as dead.
* As above, I use the term sterilized with some caution- the overall effect is far better than sanitized however it probably won't meet the sterile specification if analyzed in a lab; for our purposes though the wort is as good as sterile. A helpful analog is UHT and Pasteurized milk, No- Chill is equivalent to UHT Milk- provided it remains sealed it stores indefinitely and without refrigeration, while pasteurized milk certainly won't keep that way for very long at all. Open up UHT though and all bets are off.
Hope that helps! :icon_cheers:
To do this, of course the cube should be cleaned and sanitised, add the wort then seal it, turn the cube on its side and rotate a few times as it cools to ensure complete heat treatment over all surfaces. When treated this way the cube will develop some pressure, with the air that does remain sometimes the contraction on cooling is excessive but after a few goes you soon a feel for closing it with some air present and not ending up with a collapsed cube which may rupture at a fold. A tap can be fitted though, it is jolly handy when emptying or even fermenting in the cube but it is also quite helpful for relieving the pressure that builds up in the initial cooling phase while it is rotated and moved around. You don't need to evacuate all that air, particularly if the cube is far from full, however partly- filling a cube and not treating every surface effectively is unfortunately likely to fail, so I recommend using a tap.
However, the lower the volume of wort in the cube then the lower the area that can be treated before the wort temperature becomes ineffective. The interior of the cube (plus the lid, seal and tap if fitted) has to be heated with near- boiling wort for some time to render any bugs present as good as dead.
* As above, I use the term sterilized with some caution- the overall effect is far better than sanitized however it probably won't meet the sterile specification if analyzed in a lab; for our purposes though the wort is as good as sterile. A helpful analog is UHT and Pasteurized milk, No- Chill is equivalent to UHT Milk- provided it remains sealed it stores indefinitely and without refrigeration, while pasteurized milk certainly won't keep that way for very long at all. Open up UHT though and all bets are off.
Hope that helps! :icon_cheers:
seemax
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Get some sodium percarbonate or PBW and a bottle of Starsan or Iodophor.
After each use clean the cube with dissolved PBW (dose as per instruction)... drain and rinse.. then 1mL of starsan per 1L of water. Few minutes contact time, then drain it... don't rinse and DO NOT FEAR THE FOAM! Seal cube until you're ready to fill it.
After each use clean the cube with dissolved PBW (dose as per instruction)... drain and rinse.. then 1mL of starsan per 1L of water. Few minutes contact time, then drain it... don't rinse and DO NOT FEAR THE FOAM! Seal cube until you're ready to fill it.
