No-chill... just leave in the urn?

[jpanic]

G'day

I am currently brewing all-grain BIAB.

I finished a cook last night quite late, and was about to transfer from the urn (BIAB, 40L stainless steel urn) to a no-chill cube to start fermenting the next day, when we thought - why not simply seal up the urn and leave it as-is overnight, then straight into the fermenter the following day?

I brew with two others and we discussed it and couldn't see the downside. So we sealed up with a foil layer between the lid and the rim of the urn, and it went into the fermenter today eventually with the yeast starters (which had been made from a chilled 2L extract from the wort).

The benefit is that is simply saves a step, and avoids having to sanitise then cleaning a no-chill cube later.

Can anyone see a downside to this, provided you are careful getting a reasonable seal on the urn?

 

[manticle]

Others have done this successfully. The original idea of no chill was to put hot wort into a sealable container from which you could expel the majority of air.

The more you stray from that idea, the greater the risk but if your seal is good and your vessel is clean and sanitary then it's not greatly different.

 

[citizensnips]

Ive done in 10+ times with no problems. There isn't really a downside asides from greater risk of infection however if your method works then not really.

 

[Crusty]

I think it's pushing the boundaries a bit too far.
Others have done it successfully & you may have as well but the risk of infection as the wort begins to cool is pretty high.
I really wouldn't make this a standard practice in your brewing schedule as it may catch you out sooner or later.
It takes a couple of minutes to starsan a cube & I'd be resting easier when going to bed knowing the wort is pretty safe in the no chill cube.
Each to their own though & hopefully you won't have any issues.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

I don't NC much anymore, but to me it was always a small impost to have a sealed container with a really low chance of contamination. This method can probably work ok 9 times out of 10, or 99 times out of 100, but it still seems like a bad risk compared to effort to me. I can see where you're coming from...sometimes I'll seal up a curry in the pot it was cooked in through pure laziness...but I know it will keep better if I move it to tupperware...

 

[recharge]

Plus I don't think I'd like to be committed to pitching next day in case something comes up.

Rich

 

[Bribie G]

The sight tube can't be guaranteed sterile. As well as the sight tube, the only time I've left the wort in the urn to cool, in a Birko, I got an infection. On dismantling the tap I found a manky bit of hop material that didn't smell too good.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

How long does it take to transfer your hot wort into a sanitised cube?

2 minutes?

Probably less time than it took to ask whether it is ok to do what you did.

 

[citizensnips]

The main reason I no chill in my kettle is because I personally don't like putting boiling liquid into plastic....even though I'm well aware it's hdpe or what not and is meant to be able to handle those temps. I just didn't want to write this and create some form of shit storm. Don't get me wrong if it were stainless or something I would do it in a heart beat but each to their own, I just like to use as little plastic as possible..that's just me

 

[Ross]

The stainless fermenter does not have an airtight seal & hence there is a risk of contaminants being sucked into the head space, so no it is not good practise.
Chances are that anyone doing this method has a higher bacterial level in their beer whether they can taste it or not.
PLEASE follow best practise & try & make the best beer you can. Shortcuts like this are really unnecessary & will come back and bite you.

cheers Ross

P.S. If you do create an airtight seal with boiling wort in a stainless urn, you'll come back in the morning to a buckled urn.

 

[fcmcg]

Without getting a mod strike... There are heaps of pages of members who have done exactly what you have done and then got an infection and then wondered why...search it if you want but, after all that work , I wouldn't want to waste some wort...
As suggested , it may work once or twice or even 10 times but I reckon it will only take one infection for you to go back to the cube...

 

[fletcher]

higher infection risk, and as ross says; a true airtight seal will mean you buckle and ruin your urn, and the need to pitch the next day (no ability to store it longer than after it's at pitch temp).

weigh that against the possibility of it being okay and working and to me the negatives outweigh the positives.

i wouldn't. my 2c.

 

[Glot]

Know what you mean about the plastic. I don't like dumping boiling wort into plastic either. Supposed to take the heat but gets soft still.
When I chill, I put a couple of sheets of cling wrap on top and the lid on. Seals it but the wrap sucks in like a diaphragm. I chill my pot in a water bath. Thinking of going to an immersion chiller but concerned about what gets in during that 20 or 30 minutes.

 

[jpanic]

Thanks all for the feedback and good advice. Will take this all into consideration and avoid in the future.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

I'd have thought the folks that have concerns about plastics and hot liquids would just use a chiller?

 

[manticle]

P.S. If you do create an airtight seal with boiling wort in a stainless urn, you'll come back in the morning to a buckled urn.

This is a very good point that I missed. I automatically thought of a standard pot with glad seal and lid when I read the OP. No chill is already a shortcut that is proven to work. Follow the process as tried and tested.

Anyone concerned about hot wort and hdpe is being paranoid. There is no basis for being alarmed.

 

[mosto]

I read this thread yesterday and went with the consensus of why risk it. However, I got the chance to brew today for the first time in weeks, and, during the boil, went to empty the Starsan solution out of my only cube which had been sitting in there since my last brew. It had gone a reddish colour and smelt like a septic. No way I was putting my wort in that so, with this thread in mind, I've covered with foil, put the lid on (converted crab cooker, not an urn), and hoped for the best. Usually build a Coopers starter from part of the wort for this brew but, obviously, need to pitch ASAP, so will use US05 instead. Hopefully it works, but not a practice I want to repeat.

 

[citizensnips]

I'd have thought the folks that have concerns about plastics and hot liquids would just use a chiller?

Cannot bring myself to waste that water, its a lot, I should really figure out a way to avoid chilling in the kettle but it works for the time being

 

[goomboogo]

Cannot bring myself to waste that water, its a lot, I should really figure out a way to avoid chilling in the kettle but it works for the time being

There are ways to chill without wasting any water. A small tank and a pump recirculating the cooling water means no loss. Short of that, collecting the water and using it later means no waste. I use between 60 and 70 litres of water to cool a 20-22 litre batch of beer to pitching temperature with a plate chiller. This water is used on the vegetable patch. My old top-loading washing machine used that much water in a wash. So, one batch of beer cooled and one load of washing done with the same water.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Cannot bring myself to waste that water

I don't waste a drop. Green bin from bunnings holds a batch worth and then gets dumped in the yard. The other day I realized too late that I hadn't emptied and just got the missus to directly water the yard as I chilled. The long length of out hose got it back to a decent garden safe temp.