Nightmare on Brew Street

[jc64]

Mightn't a siphon have more places for nasties to hide and be harder to clean than a tap?

Lecterfan recently made a thread about a series of infections he's been having that he seems to be getting on top of. No clear answers there but some posts might be food for thought for you guys (if you haven't seen it already).

[EDIT: I a whole word.]

Not really, my siphon is a pretty simple thing to clean, nowhere for anything to hide.

Best of luck to the OP, seems like he has been super clean but still having no luck. Maybe ferment a batch in a corny keg? Eliminate the plastic fermentor and see if that helps.

 

[GalBrew]

Well it this is indeed a wild yeast infection that is only fairly recent, could this be a seasonal thing? Is some weird wild yeast strain hitching a ride on some winter flowering pollen? Maybe you should leave a few plates outside and grow a culture. Ferment some tinned kit beer with some of it and see if the same off flavours that you can detect are present??

 

[stakka82]

Fermenting in a keg is not a bad idea, only thing is I can't steam/boil the keg or chlorine it if worst comes to worst. Hesitant to innoculate other brewery gear.

This is not a bad idea (will try it if the heat/chlorine doesn't work) - I am sure this is environmental:

Well it this is indeed a wild yeast infection that is only fairly recent, could this be a seasonal thing? Is some weird wild yeast strain hitching a ride on some winter flowering pollen? Maybe you should leave a few plates outside and grow a culture. Ferment some tinned kit beer with some of it and see if the same off flavours that you can detect are present??

 

[WarmBeer]

Can you get a leave-pass to brew a batch in the kitchen or laundry, rather than your usual brew area?

Might eliminate if there wild yeast running rampant out in your shed, for example.

 

[stakka82]

Can you get a leave-pass to brew a batch in the kitchen or laundry, rather than your usual brew area?

Might eliminate if there wild yeast running rampant out in your shed, for example.

Own the place and have a housemate so no leave pass required.

One of those that have failed have been from BIAB brewed and cooled in kitchen/laundry, the rest from the BM.

Have had BM batches where one cube has been cactus, the other fine (fine one first, then cactus one weeks later). Of all the failed BM cubes, wort has tasted perfectly fine out of the cube and no signs of swelling.

 

[WarmBeer]

Sorry, meant to say "ferment", rather than "brew".

Where are you doing your actual fermentation? If it's tasting fine out of the BM, it could be something in the fermentation environment making ingress.

 

[angus_grant]

Use your new fermenter and see if the beer comes out OK. Clean the bajeesus out of the new fermenter (along with current fermenters) and run a few batches through it.

If new fermenter keeps producing good beer over a few batches, you have some nasties in your current fermenters which are surviving your current cleaning processes. If so, change/add to your cleaning processes. You could toss them out and spend $40 at Bunnings/Green Shed/etc to get 2 new fermenters but then if your cleaning processes aren't enough to keep that certain bug out, it will happen again eventually.

If new fermenter starts producing crap beer, then it is somewhat likely you have an environmental infection.

And just because it tastes fine out of the BM, doesn't mean the BM isn't the source. It takes a while for an infection to present itself.

 

[krausenhaus]

Maybe you could try and plate it? Boiled cooled LDME with gelatin (or agar-agar) in some small containers with lids, serial dilutions of the infected wort lawned out next to a burner, straight US-05 for comparison, then sealed and incubated in the fermenting fridge? Obviously wouldn't be the most sterile procedure in the world but if wild yeast is dominating in the wort you'll know about it..

 

[stakka82]

Use your new fermenter and see if the beer comes out OK. Clean the bajeesus out of the new fermenter (along with current fermenters) and run a few batches through it.

If new fermenter keeps producing good beer over a few batches, you have some nasties in your current fermenters which are surviving your current cleaning processes. If so, change/add to your cleaning processes. You could toss them out and spend $40 at Bunnings/Green Shed/etc to get 2 new fermenters but then if your cleaning processes aren't enough to keep that certain bug out, it will happen again eventually.

If new fermenter starts producing crap beer, then it is somewhat likely you have an environmental infection.

And just because it tastes fine out of the BM, doesn't mean the BM isn't the source. It takes a while for an infection to present itself.

Already did this last time I had this come up. So one of my 'current' fermenters is only 3 months old.

Tastes fine out of the cube, not BM, after several months in the cube, with no swelling. Also as stated earlier have had 50l batches where one cube has fermented fine and the other not.

WB - have considered this but the problem is the house gets down to 10 or 11 at night regularly, even the living room.

 

[angus_grant]

Hmm, if you are getting 2 ferments out of the same batch in different cubes and only one is getting infected then I would think you have an infection in either that cube or the fermenter or a persistent environmental infection. Certainly the problem seems to be in the fermentation phase rather than wort production or cube storage.

I would look at your cleaning regime and see if there is something else you can add to the process. How do you store your cubes/fermenters when not in use? Breaking down all your taps, removing and cleaning seals in fermenter and cube lids, cleaning out ferment area (although I think you mentioned doing that).

Try not using your siphon. I just dump my entire cube (hot/cold break, everything) into the fermenter and I find my beer drinkable with no problems present (to my palate anyway). Pair back to as little equipment as possible and see if the infection persists. I clean out the fermenter tap prior to ferment and then star-san before draining into my kegs after ferment finished.

 

[kymba]

Have you pulled the seals out of your cube lids?

 

[stakka82]

The problem went from being in no fermenters to all 3 simultaneously.

If cube has not swelled and tastes exactly as I expect it to before pitching I'm pretty certain it's not the cube.

"I would look at your cleaning regime and see if there is something else you can add to the process. How do you store your cubes/fermenters when not in use? Breaking down all your taps, removing and cleaning seals in fermenter and cube lids, cleaning out ferment area (although I think you mentioned doing that)."

After the first time I copped this I do all of the above as standard now.

"Have you pulled the seals out of your cube lids?" No, but 2 of the 3 cubes that have ended up cactus in the fermenter were brand new.

I don't use a siphon either.

 

[angus_grant]

yeh, I mixed up posters withthe siphon comment. Brand new doesn't mean clean.

So what about a new fermenter and a FWK from a supplier? This would rule out infection in your equipment and restrict it to your fermenter and ferment area. That would help you narrow it down to your environment being the problem. If no problem with the FWK, then you are perhaps then looking at your equipment again. If problem with FWK, then perhaps you have a problem with your ferment area and wild yeast/infection getting in to your fermenter.

 

[dicko]

Are you using the same yeast strain each time?
If so try a dried yeast from a new sealed packet.

 

[manticle]

The problem went from being in no fermenters to all 3 simultaneously.

If cube has not swelled and tastes exactly as I expect it to before pitching I'm pretty certain it's not the cube.

Don't be. If a cube had something in it and you are transferring to your fermenters it might explain how all three got it. I know you say you have bought new cubes att various points so not sure if this is the issue.

I know how frustrating this can be (been there myself). Best suggestion I can offer (and how I fixed my issues) was to eliminate transfer altogether. New equipment, no chill into cube and ferment directly in it. Also try buying an FWK and adding dry yeast directly to it. If these come out ok, work forwards from there.

I agree on the likelihood of the wild yeast cause.

 

[dicko]

Have a read of this thread, a lot of reading but it does explain the woes of an infection and the final solution.


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/21240-400-liters-lost-to-infection/

 

[stakka82]

Ok so I just bleached an affected fermenter and tap and bits all disassembled.

I used household bleach, 5% hypochlorite at 1:30 dilution.

Then I rinsed the crap out of it, put all the bits in my 10lt hlt including transfer hose to cubes and boiled for 30 mins.

While this was happening i put the fermenter and lid in the 50L bm (still enough room to put the lid on) and boiled for 30 mins also.

That thing is almost like an autclave with the lid on, if nothing else it's a great disinfection device.

I have then quarantined all bleached/boiled gear in my bedroom far from my garage to dry (can you tell I'm single?).

I am going to do a 10 L test biab on the weekend, and ferment inside.

If this works I will then ferment outside. If that works I will then brew on BM. If that works I will then ferment in the ferm fridge again.

And if any one of those steps fail I'm bleaching and boiling my gear again until this is gone. This is war.

 

[kymba]

I only asked about the lids as that was where my 2 infections have come from. after lifting the o-ring out there was a tiny 1mm square bloom of mold. the cubes didn't swell, but upon opening the cubes it looked like motor oil and smelt a bit funny like weird pepper. When I poured it into the fermenter it was different from normal wort, like hydraulic oil

 

[kymba]

ugh, sorry about the formatting. posting from the phone

 

[stakka82]

Fair enough mate, as I said some cubes were brand new, also no off smell or taste or swelling. Also one batch was not cubed, just chlled in the kettle (19l biab) in the laundry sink and chucked in.

Appreciate the input/experience though.