New Set Up Incresed Efficancy

[shawnheiderich]

I have just changed my set up from a 55l esky with braid manifold to a 50l SS vessel with a 10 inch false bottom. My observations after this are.

1. Increased efficancy from 65% over about 8 brews to 86% for my first brew on new rig... I assume that the false bottom played a part but I also had to sparge more slowly due to the new set up.. from about 15 minutes to 45 minutes.. I am happy to use 2kg less grain for the same result.

2. Boiled for an extra 10-15 minutesbefore 60 min hop addtion dont know why just did.

Made a easy drinking (I hope) european style ale

4.6 kg JW pils
.5 Wheat
.5 Carafoam

25g Herbrucker at 60
25g Perle at 60
20g Saaz at 15
20g Saaz at 0

25l at 1062...

s 04 yeast smells great in the fermenter


Shawn

 

[damoncouper]

I am also looking at making the jump to a SS tun from an 55L esky. I have not seen any issues with efficiency though and consistently get a tad over 80%. I usually take at least 1 hour to drain the esky, some times more. Being able to apply direct heat to the tun would be great. Good stuff.

 

[drsmurto]

Hmmmmm. Slow run off? Is that very important? I have found i can runoff clear very quickly and so when i can open the tap fully but is this going to reduce the efficiency? Less rinsing of the grains? Is that why a slow fly sparge increases efficiency?

Also, using a ss tun instead of an esky will increase grain bed depth? I recall that it provides a more efficient filter but what impact does that have on efficiency?

Apologies for slight thread hijack but your observations highlighted some thoughts i had been having of late.

Cheers
DrSmurto

 

[Cortez The Killer]

I don't reckon vessel design makes much of a difference re efficiency when you batch sparge. So long as you are able to maintain mashing temps in the vessel and effectively sparge.

Factors to look at when trying to improve efficiency when batch sparging are

- Grain crush
- Mash temp (maintaining / measuring)
- Mash thickness
- Use of a mash out addition
- Sparge temps
- Stirring up the mash to ensure maximum dissolving of sugars

I can't really see that a slower sparge will do anything to efficiency when batch sparging (I usually add sparge water, give it a really goood stir, wait 5 mins - then drain as fast as the system will allow without a stuck sparge)

A better mash tun design will allow you to crush more finely to achieve better extraction without getting a stuck sparge

I found after swapping my slotted manifold for a beer belly falsie bottom - I gained better extraction because I was able to close the gap on the mill a bit more

Cheers

 

[Whistlingjack]

Slow run-off avoids any issues with channelling of the wort, even with batch sparging.

When the grain bed has settled after mixing, the higher gravity wort will naturally settle to the bottom of the tun. Opening the tap too fast can cause the lower gravity wort on the top to find the "line of least resistance" and channel through the bed.

WJ

 

[shawnheiderich]

The grain bed was deeper in the new setup than the old, that may have been a factor I am not to concerned as to why it was better extraction but I guess that others may want to better their system. I kept all other parts of the process the same the only difference was the mashing vessel. I am happy to keep replicating this brewing technique to see if I get consistant results.

Having said that the beer probably wont taste any different.

Shawn

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Slow run-off avoids any issues with channelling of the wort, even with batch sparging.

When the grain bed has settled after mixing, the higher gravity wort will naturally settle to the bottom of the tun. Opening the tap too fast can cause the lower gravity wort on the top to find the "line of least resistance" and channel through the bed.

WJ

But channeling makes no difference whatsoever when you are batch sparging. You drain out all the wort eventually, so it doesn't matter at all how it reaches the valve, as long as it gets there.

When you are batch sparging, draining more slowly than needed to avoid a stuck sparge, does nothing other than allow you to have an extra beer while its happening. As fast as it will come out is exactly as efficient as taking an hour.

Unless we are talking about different things when we use the words "batch sparging" ??

NOT the same thing when you are continuous sparging though. Slower sparge definitely helps with efficiency.

TB

 

[Whistlingjack]

If you batch sparge to a volume, you may get less sugars when the wort channels through from the top in a fast run off. That is, you may get to the volume without getting all the sugars.

Sure, you think you are taking all the wort, but don't forget that some will remain soaked into the husks, etc.

It is far better to allow the weight of the liquid on the top push the rest through the bed slowly, effectively rinsing the grain, rather than using suction of a wide open tap. If you are getting stuck sparges, look to other solutions like changing the manifold or false bottom, or altering the crush.

WJ

 

[justsomeguy]

If you batch sparge to a volume, you may get less sugars when the wort channels through from the top in a fast run off. That is, you may get to the volume without getting all the sugars.

I'm not sure about that. After initial draining of the mash and adding the first 'batch' water you give the whole mash a good stir. If there were any channels they are going to be destroyed by the stirring. The stirring also gives the grain a chance to release more sugars and equalise the water:sugar ratios again ready for you to dump it out a second/third time.

As Thirsty indicated in a previous post, once the water:sugar ratio has equalised draining the mash quickly or slowly won't make a difference, unless you haven't done a mashout to halt the enzymatic(sp?) reaction.

What you have described above could certainly apply to a fly/continuous sparge operation though.

gary

 

[Screwtop]

If you batch sparge to a volume, you may get less sugars when the wort channels through from the top in a fast run off. That is, you may get to the volume without getting all the sugars.

Sure, you think you are taking all the wort, but don't forget that some will remain soaked into the husks, etc.

It is far better to allow the weight of the liquid on the top push the rest through the bed slowly, effectively rinsing the grain, rather than using suction of a wide open tap. If you are getting stuck sparges, look to other solutions like changing the manifold or false bottom, or altering the crush.

WJ

I'm with WJ. On my system, Batch or Continuous Sparge, slow runoff increases efficiency.

Something I notice when batch sparging. If the tun is drained quickly after adding sparge water, stirring and recirculating, there is a fine slurry coating over the grainbed, probably due to compaction of the grainbed and the lighter flour particles settling on top of the grainbed. From examination of the grainbed after sparging it seems this layer is somewhat impervious, so the wort tends to channel down around the outer edge of the grainbed and this is most likely the cause of the lower efficiency. If the outlet is just cracked open slightly and the wort drained slowly the grainbed is much more open and not so compacted, with no slurry coating the surface after draining. The wort has slowly drained down through the grainbed and caused less compaction and better extraction as there is no channeling. Also the grainbed is much drier, not retaining as much liquid as when it is drained quickly.

Screwy

 

[rich_lamb]

Only 65% from a 55L esky? I'm not sure it's the esky per se; I know guys who do around 75% from a large esky.

I typically get 62-64% but I'm only using a 20L esky (batch sparge) and only sparge once. The last beer I did had a gravity of about 1.044 into the kettle and the last runnings from the sparge were still 1.029! The worms in my compost heap are makin' out like bandits, but my kettle can only handle a 20L boil so that's my system for now.
(new kettle is on the way!)

For me a bigger mash tun is a lower priority - I'll double sparge when my kettle size increases. But I can tweak the efficiency a few percent doing the following (I buy grain crushed so I assume the crush is pretty constant):

1) Decoction during mashing. Sometimes just for the heck of it - to improve flavour, darken the colour, etc
2) "Acid" rest. Or a brief rest at about 40 degC. My understanding is this activates some glucanase which helps bust up the cell walls in the grain to improve efficiency, among other things