Natural Gas In The Brewery V Bottle Gas

[Gout]

Hi gang, i have been looking at a new burner for my 120Lt kettle ( brew about 80Lt with electric also - with a lot of head for boil over etc)

anyway i was looking online and the shops and reading heaps of information on here regarding the different burners. I was told the mongolian burner can use both natural and bottle gas. I was thinking the natural gas option would save heaps on bottle gas and the pain to go and get the bottle filled up.

I have a few questions:
is it expensive to get an outlet added to the house for the burner (i have a gas pipe about 5 meters away) for a spa heater that is never used

Do you need to hard pipe it into the system or is there a form of fitting and hose? eg will i need to fix the brew stand

lastly - does the burner work better on natural gas? i see a lot of posts that say it really blackens the pot and if so i may stick with bottle gas and buy a nasa burner

cheers

 

[Supra-Jim]

I can't speak for the performance, but i believe if you want to connect to mains gas from your house, it needs to be hard plumbed. I don't think you can have a disconnect connection (though happy to be corrected here).

Should be a cost effective move though, as BBQ gas is convenient but not as cheap as natural gas.

Cheers SJ

 

[Quintrex]

I can't speak for the performance, but i believe if you want to connect to mains gas from your house, it needs to be hard plumbed. I don't think you can have a disconnect connection (though happy to be corrected here).

Should be a cost effective move though, as BBQ gas is convenient but not as cheap as natural gas.

Cheers SJ

You can get quick disconnect architectural gas fittings i think, a friend got one installed for his NG weber bbq thingy.

 

[white.grant]

My BBQ attaches via a flexible hose to a bayonet fitting which is hard plumbed to the supply. The approved flexible hoses for gas appliances are fairly short - about 1.2m max so you need to be that close to your bayonet fitting.

cheers

grant

 

[jbirbeck]

Hi gang, i have been looking at a new burner for my 120Lt kettle ( brew about 80Lt with electric also - with a lot of head for boil over etc)

anyway i was looking online and the shops and reading heaps of information on here regarding the different burners. I was told the mongolian burner can use both natural and bottle gas. I was thinking the natural gas option would save heaps on bottle gas and the pain to go and get the bottle filled up.

I have a few questions:
is it expensive to get an outlet added to the house for the burner (i have a gas pipe about 5 meters away) for a spa heater that is never used

Do you need to hard pipe it into the system or is there a form of fitting and hose? eg will i need to fix the brew stand

lastly - does the burner work better on natural gas? i see a lot of posts that say it really blackens the pot and if so i may stick with bottle gas and buy a nasa burner

cheers

I'm on NG - I have a converted 4 ring. I can't speak for the cost of getting the outlet installed as it was there when we got the house. The outlet is not in the most convenient spot but was put where it was to minimise the distance I would say (matches up to the gas heater inside)

The hose I have is a quick connect/disconnect. basically a standard NG BBQ conversion kit you can get from bunnings. So no you shouldn't need to fix the stand.

NG DOES NOT blacken the pot.

 

[Gout]

wow thanks for the info, it might be worth getting a quote as i assume the NG is much cheaper than $25 a 9Kg bottle. I seem to get through gas doing the big brews and my electric elements are not able to keep up with the large volumes

 

[Kai]

My BBQ attaches via a flexible hose to a bayonet fitting which is hard plumbed to the supply. The approved flexible hoses for gas appliances are fairly short - about 1.2m max so you need to be that close to your bayonet fitting.

cheers

grant

I also have it in the back of my head that flexihose from LPG may not be usable on natural gas. Can't remember fo sho tho

 

[roger mellie]

I also have it in the back of my head that flexihose from LPG may not be usable on natural gas. Can't remember fo sho tho

From an incompatibility perspective? Or a pressure one?

I cant see either being an issue - very very low pressures in both systems. NG is basically Methane - LPG is Propane with some Butane.

I am considering doing this myself if I ever get my brew rig sorted out - will ask my gas fitter neighbor.

RM

 

[BoilerBoy]

The biggest issue with NG is the the low pressure and it seems to vary from suburb to suburb from what I others have said.

I tried a conversion and it failed dismally, in a trial it took over 3 hours to bring 40L of water to the boil with the lid on and couldn't hold a boil with the lid off also the flame kept blowing out in a gentle breeze, this was with the jet drilled to the maximum.

Others as I said have had more success, I'm no gas fitter, but I'm thinking in some appliactions the only way to extract a hotter flame would be a separate gas line from the house that was direct from the meter using a bigger diameter pipe.

Cheers,
BB

 

[Kai]

From an incompatibility perspective? Or a pressure one?

From a compatibility perspective, though I think I'm thinking of rubber tubing for bunsen burners....

 

[Stubbie]

I've gone the NG route myself.

A plumber friend, who enjoys my HB, and I ran a 3/4 inch copper line from the house to the garage, where it terminates with a shut off valve. From memory the cost was about $150 for materials about a year ago, which included nearly a full coil of copper. The plumbing service was free. Thanks Jack Knife

I run a 6m braided hose gas line from gas outlet to burner - about $90 from Tradelink. The 6m length provides flexibilty in moving the brewery in or out of the garage, depending on wind, shade and weather or whatever I feel like. Presently the gas outlet to braided hose connection is via a standard threaded fitting however the intention is to fit a QD bayonet fitting - 6m of relatively stiff braided hose poking out at right angles to the brick wall is a PITA and makes for a cumbersome coil.

I bought a 23 Jet Mongolian burner in the LPG configuration. In my case, the aforementioned burner would NOT function on NG. I could just manage to ignite most of the jets on the lowest of gas settings but they would progressively blow themselves out as the gas valve was opened, in fact well before 1/4 throttle. An internet search uncovered OEM specifications for jet hole diameters; 0.6mm for LPG and 1.2mm for NG. I'm lucky enough to have access to a metal working lathe and used a 1.0mm drill bit to open up one of jets as a trial. I felt the gas velocity was a little on the slow side. Next attempt was 0.83mm (No. 67 Imperial drill bit, IIRC) on all the remaining jets and I have to say it works like a charm with wonderful blue flames from idle to full bore. :super:

Note: I just cannot imagine anyone attempting the re-jetting exercise without a decent lathe. Anyone going down this path most likely needs to find someone with a metal working lathe and hope the chuck will hold, like in my case, a 0.83mm drill bit.

Hope this helps.
Stubbie

 

[pdilley]

I have not shopped Mongolian burners in Oz yet but in the States you can order them already fitted out for NG or already fitted out for LPG. You also can buy replacement tips as well. They are also only $20-$26 to buy a Mongolian over there! So if they were not cast iron I'd ship one out here considering the local prices. Or setup a bulk buy at the local club as $50-60 freight covers up to 20 pounds. Divided out over a few people in one order it wouldnt be too bad. I also have the manufacturer in China and funny enough they just call the cast iron jet burners, which is the same name used in the States, I guess Mongolian is a local Oz moniker for product branding.

I'm still planning on one though, kitted out for NG of course considerng LPG prices.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Barley Belly]

http://www.auscrown.com/commjetbrn.php

 

[Jerry]

but I'm thinking in some appliactions the only way to extract a hotter flame would be a separate gas line from the house that was direct from the meter using a bigger diameter pipe.

Cheers,
BB

Correct.

I just recently had a NG line installed for for my BBQ with a view to eventually using it for brewing as well.

The NG outlet needed to be at the back of the house - unfortunately this was as far away from the meter as you could get.

I also needed to run the pipe through the roof.

The total length was somewhere around 25-30 metres.

Because of the distance, I needed two lengths of 32mm pipe, followed by several lengths of 25mm to give me enough pressure to run the BBQ and an outdoor heater.

It wasn't cheap but the convenience far outweighs the cost and in the long run it pays for itself. (it will be a very long run though)

Scott