My First Meads

[KudaPucat]

I'm a newbie to brewing

I've recently started 3 batches of mead.

Batch 1
Prepared 19/11/10
Style: JAO
Yeast: local breadshop's own brand
OG: 1142
I used navel oranges - they were the thinnest skinned variety available.

Batch 2
Prepared: 21/11/10
Style: Dry straight mead
yeast: 1/3 packet EC-1118
OG: 1085

Batch 3
Prepared: 21/11/10
Style: Sweet straight mead
yeast: 1/3 packet EC-1118
OG: 1125

 

[KudaPucat]

I have one question: What's a 'vigorous ferment'??

Batch 1 is bubbling once every 09s
Batch 2 is bubbling once every 20s
Batch 3 is bubbling once every 14s

Is this normal? Batch 2 and 3 started on the same day, and yet have a large discrepancy in CO2 production...

Any ideas?

by 'straight mead' I mean honey yeast and water only. no nutrient... Is this a problem? should I add some?
Will batch 3 actually have some sweetness or will the EC-1118 make it dry?
With its higher sugar content, will it take FOREVER to ferment?

 

[Airgead]

I have one question: What's a 'vigorous ferment'??

Batch 1 is bubbling once every 09s
Batch 2 is bubbling once every 20s
Batch 3 is bubbling once every 14s

Is this normal? Batch 2 and 3 started on the same day, and yet have a large discrepancy in CO2 production...

Any ideas?

by 'straight mead' I mean honey yeast and water only. no nutrient... Is this a problem? should I add some?
Will batch 3 actually have some sweetness or will the EC-1118 make it dry?
With its higher sugar content, will it take FOREVER to ferment?

Bubble frequency is a poor way to judge fermentation activity. If there is a slight leak between the bung and the carboy it will bubble much less than it otherwise should. The gas can also go into solution and not bubble out as much.

You definitely want some nutrient in there. It is perfectly acceptable (some would even say necessary) to use nutrient in a straight mead. Without nutrient you will get poor yeast division and poor fermentation.

Meads will ferment out very dry if given half a chance and EC-1118 has a very high tolerance to alcohol so it may not be the best to use for the sweet mead. You are likely to get a very strong dry mead. You could try withholding nutrient from that one to try and stall the fermentation a little. Result will either be a mead that stops a little sweeter or a mead that still ferments out really dry but takes ages to do it.

With proper nutrient levels you can ferment a mead out pretty quickly. Mine usually take 4-6 weeks. Brewer Pete with his fancy nutrient additions gets them fermented out in a couple of weeks. If they drag on for ages its probably lack of nutrients.

Best to add nutrient right at the beginning as the yeast need it to divide. Once division has stopped and fermentation starts they don't need so much. Can't hurt to bung it in now though and see if it perks them up a little.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

Any brand recommendations for nutrient? Or chemical names. Quantities etc?

 

[Airgead]

Any brand recommendations for nutrient? Or chemical names. Quantities etc?

Your LHBS should have some. Mostly its DAP (Diamonium phosphate) sometimes with some killed yeast in there as well. If there is killed yeast you need to boil it up for a few minutes to break the cells open. Quantities vary from brand to brand so follow the directions on the pack.

From memory my last pack came from craftbrewer. I seem to remember it being well under $10.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

My LHBS unfortunately suggested that nutrient was unnecessary, and perhaps offputting to flavours.
He did not have any brand-name stuff, just a bag of stuff they package in house, hence why I was asking for chemical names.
How much should I need to buy/use?
There may be instructions on the pack... I'll see tomorrow, but I'm not holding out hope.

How was Ye Olde mead brewed? Did they always have to add fruit as yeast fodder? Is there something that doesn't sound like an evil chemical that I can add without changing the flavour?

 

[The_Duck]

Funny your LHBS stocks Yeast Nutrient if it "gives off flavours".

Is the person there an experienced mead maker ? My homebrew club probably has 2 or 3 mead makers out of 50-60+ members who regularly attend meetings.

Every book I have read talks about using yeast nutrient in Mead because the honey has anti bacterial properties that really cause the yeast to have to work hard in the initial stages of the ferment... so one could say that NOT putting nutrient in may cause far worse flavours in some cases.

Don't go over board. 2 teaspoons in a 19-23 litre batch of pretty much any style of mead is about right.

You could also culture a big yeast starter before you pitch it which would also help. Gradually add some of the must into the starter for an hour or so to acclimatise the yeast before pitching.

Hope that helps.


Duck

 

[Airgead]

My LHBS unfortunately suggested that nutrient was unnecessary, and perhaps offputting to flavours.
He did not have any brand-name stuff, just a bag of stuff they package in house, hence why I was asking for chemical names.
How much should I need to buy/use?
There may be instructions on the pack... I'll see tomorrow, but I'm not holding out hope.

How was Ye Olde mead brewed? Did they always have to add fruit as yeast fodder? Is there something that doesn't sound like an evil chemical that I can add without changing the flavour?

Ahh one of *those* LHBS's... grab it from craftbrewer or grain&grape. My bag says 40g/100l (its designed for winemakers who generally make larger batches than us beer guys). That works out at 4g/10l so around 2g for a 4l batch or around 10g for a 25l batch.

If you want to look at how old meads were done, take a look ad Digby - http://www.gutenberg.org/files/16441/16441-h/16441-h.htm It dates from the 1600s and is full of old mead recipes. For Example -

MR. CORSELLISES ANTWERP MEATH

To make good Meath, good white and thick Marsilian or Provence-honey is best; and of that, to four Holland Pints (the Holland Pint is very little bigger then the English Wine-pint of Water, you must put two pound of Honey; The Honey must be stirred in Water, till it be all melted; If it be stirred about in warm water, it will melt so much the sooner.

When all is dissolved, it must be so strong that an Egge may swim in it with the end upwards. And if it be too sweet or too strong, because there is too much Honey; then you must put more water to it; yet so, that, as above, an Hens Egge may swim with the point upwards: And then that newly added water must be likewise well stirred about, so that it may be mingled all alike. If the Eggs sink (which is a token that there is not honey enough) then you must put more Honey to it, and stir about, till it be all dissolved, and the Eggs swim, as abovesaid. This being done, it must be hanged over the fire, and as it beginneth to seeth, the scum, that doth arise upon it, both before and after, must be clean skimed off. When it is first set upon the fire, you must measure it first with a stick, how deep the Kettel is, or how much Liquor there be in it; and then it must boil so long, till one third part of it be boiled away. When it is thus boiled, it must be poured out into a Cooler, or open vessel, before it be tunned in the Barrel; but the Bung-hole must be left open, that it may have vent. A vessel, which hath served for Sack is best.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

OK, I bought some DAP.
I will hydrate my remaining yeast, 1/3 packet and add < 1tsp of DAP to it.
Then I will split it between the 2 x 1gal demi's that I have prepared.

How does that sound?

Should I add must to the yeast slowly so as to aclimatise? or not bother so much?

I have some boysenberries that will be ripe in the coming weeks. I'd like to try adding some to a portion of the secondary ferment. Any thoughts on this?

 

[KudaPucat]

Airgead,
as with most 'Ye Olde' recipes I've read, they bang on about an egg floating and the boiling process.
What I'm interested in is what they used as yeast fodder... Does anybody actually know for sure? Or is it lost to time?

 

[Airgead]

Airgead,
as with most 'Ye Olde' recipes I've read, they bang on about an egg floating and the boiling process.
What I'm interested in is what they used as yeast fodder... Does anybody actually know for sure? Or is it lost to time?

From a quite extensive reading of Digby, some of the recipes use fruit which would add nutrient. Some use things like boiled raisins which would also add nutrients. Some float the yeast on a piece of toasted bread which may have dome something nutrient wise. Most though seem to use nothing at all. A lot of the recipes seem quite weak and many mention being sweet so I'm guessing they put up with a long fermentation and/or drank them sweet when the yeast pegged out. A large percentage are wild fermentations or rely on existing yeast in the barrels to kick off fermentation. They also didn't bottle, not in glass anyway (glass wine bottles didn't come in until after Digby's time) so they didn't have to worry about bottle bombs if fermentation kept going for a while.

The science of yeast... or even the knowledge of what yeast was has to wait a few hundred years after this. I did note with interest though that they specifically differentiate different strains of yeast - ale, beer, wine etc so they weren't completely clueless about it.

One of these days I will have to do a few experiments with an egg and see what the egg float method gives as an OG. The most common measure seems to be "shall bear up an egg the width of a groat". Wiki tells me that a groat was a thick silver coin issued around that time which had a value of 4 pennies.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

Thanks guys,
two new batches set today, using D47 yeast. again with 1 tsp of DAP to help it along. I'm definitely going to rehydrate this time... it's appears to raise the efficacy of the yeast considerably.
1 sweet show mead (The Compleat Meadmaker)
2 dry show mead (The Compleat Meadmaker)

I plan to rack it off into multiple secondaries and keep one virgin, but add seasonal berries (I think I'll have to freeze them, as I fear the mead wont be ready) like blueberries, boysenberries, blackberries (if my bush flowers this year, she's still young) to the others.
These are the berries I have access to for free. Has anybody tried or had bad experiences with these berries?

In "The Compleat Meadmaker" Ken Schramm gives a berry recipe that is pretty much his dry show mead with berries in the secondary.
I noted he declined to give an FG... is this because adding the berries in the secondary throws off the measurement? Is it possible to measure the alcohol content if sugar bearing substances are added at this time?

 

[Airgead]

Thanks guys,
two new batches set today, using D47 yeast. again with 1 tsp of DAP to help it along. I'm definitely going to rehydrate this time... it's appears to raise the efficacy of the yeast considerably.
1 sweet show mead (The Compleat Meadmaker)
2 dry show mead (The Compleat Meadmaker)

I plan to rack it off into multiple secondaries and keep one virgin, but add seasonal berries (I think I'll have to freeze them, as I fear the mead wont be ready) like blueberries, boysenberries, blackberries (if my bush flowers this year, she's still young) to the others.
These are the berries I have access to for free. Has anybody tried or had bad experiences with these berries?

In "The Compleat Meadmaker" Ken Schramm gives a berry recipe that is pretty much his dry show mead with berries in the secondary.
I noted he declined to give an FG... is this because adding the berries in the secondary throws off the measurement? Is it possible to measure the alcohol content if sugar bearing substances are added at this time?

Yep... its hard to know what your alc% is when you add fruit in secondary. Almost impossible to accurately measure the sugar you are adding. Gotmead has a rough calculator but you really need a lab to do it accurately.

I have used pretty much all the berries you mention. Freezing them is good as it breaks the cell walls and helps release more juice. My main word of advice is that you will need more fruit than you think you will to get a good flavour. Add the fruit once the main fermentation has finished but before it clears. I often just bung them in the primary without racking to another vessel because I don't use sulphates so I try to rack as little as possible.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

Airgead, you'll be pleased to know I found a LHBS that appears to know more of what they're about, have a better range, cheaper prices and is more local! Well I was pleased anyhow ;-)
Freezing the berries may be compulsory, as I'm not sure the must will be ready to rack by the time the berries are ripe.
I don't use sulphates either, could you please describe more about why you don't rack much, the pros and cons of racking/not racking?
When you suggest I may need more berries than I would expect, there's too many unknowns for me, could you please give me an approximate amount/litre?
Should the berries be overripe?
Thanks again

 

[Airgead]

Airgead, you'll be pleased to know I found a LHBS that appears to know more of what they're about, have a better range, cheaper prices and is more local! Well I was pleased anyhow ;-)
Freezing the berries may be compulsory, as I'm not sure the must will be ready to rack by the time the berries are ripe.
I don't use sulphates either, could you please describe more about why you don't rack much, the pros and cons of racking/not racking?
When you suggest I may need more berries than I would expect, there's too many unknowns for me, could you please give me an approximate amount/litre?
Should the berries be overripe?
Thanks again

OK... racking... whenever you rack you run the risk of introducing oxygen. Oxygen is the enemy of wine (and beer). There are a bunch of compounds in wine and beer that will oxidise really quickly and make the whole thing taste foul. Normally when you rack a mead or wine you add sulphates. These work as an antioxidant and protect the wine as it is racked. I can't use sulphates (missus is allergic) so every time I rack I run the risk of oxidisation and ruining the batch. I therefore usually only rack once or maybe twice if I have added a lot of fruit and need to clear pulp.

I am building an oxygen free transfer system but it won't be ready for quite a while. In the mean time I rack once and try to make my acid adjustment at the same time as the acids (citric/tartaric) also have some antioxidant properties.

Racking helps things clear but adds risk of oxidisation. If you use sulphates you reduce the oxidisation risk so you can rack more often. I find that 1 racking is enough anyway and I end up with a crystal clear mead anyway. Some old mead books recommend racking every month for 6 months or more which is crazy. I'm not sure what the newer ones (like Ken Schwarm's) are like.

With the fruit, you know when you bite in to a blackberry or similar and its like a flavour explosion in your mouth? Add that same berry to a batch of mead and you barely taste it. You need way more than you think you do. It varies a bit depending on the berries and how strong they are but generally you are looking at 50-100g/l to get any flavour at all. In a 4l batch that's 200-400g of berries just to get colour and a little flavour. To get a really strong berry character you can double that.

Over ripe berries will produce more juice as the cells walls have started to break down. Freezing will do the same. I have a wholesale frozen berry place just down the road from me so I buy cheap kilo bags of frozen berries for this. They do a great job.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

Dave,
Ken Schramm suggests only 1 racking. and mentions nothing of sulphates (yet, I'm not much past the 'Beyond the Basics' chapter)
When do you know you should rack?
Thanks for the idea regarding berry quantities.
Acid adjustment is done by taste? or do you measure?
What do you add to temper/add acid?

 

[Airgead]

Dave,
Ken Schramm suggests only 1 racking. and mentions nothing of sulphates (yet, I'm not much past the 'Beyond the Basics' chapter)
When do you know you should rack?
Thanks for the idea regarding berry quantities.
Acid adjustment is done by taste? or do you measure?
What do you add to temper/add acid?

I must get a copy of Schramm's book. I suspect meadmaking theory has moved along quite a bit since my copy of Acton & Duncan was written.

Racking time depends - for a straight mead I usually rack when it is starting to clear. If I use fruit I will add the fruit to the primary after fermentation has stopped then rack off the fruit pulp after a certain number of days. Usually 5. Then rack again once it starts to clear. You need to rack off fruit pulp pretty quickly, especially if it is floating as it will oxidise and go nasty.

Acid is always done with a test kit. I usually use a 50/50 mix of citric and tartaric.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

Re Acid - Just read about that in Ken's book, was just jumping on to say 'never mind' ;-)
I do however have a purist streak, and dislike adding stuff I can't grow or make. Like nutrient. So I prefer an ancient Orange, or adding raisins etc as yeast fodder.
So, with that in mind, would you ever add lemon juice, lime juice, grapefruit juice, to increase the acid?
Regarding the test kit for acid... is there a 'magic number' for balancing the acid, or do you pick an acidity that you like the taste of, like when deciding upon an FG?
(As an engineer, I REALLY like numbers... even if it's approximate... and I really dislike fuzzy logic)
Ken gives OG's and FG's for almost all his recipes, which I think is GREAT, as it gives you something to aim for.
He also specifies approx 6kg of fruit per 20 litre batch... so again I find I've asked questions I should already have known the answer to.

I've just put on a sweet show mead batch with D47 and the left over leatherwood honey (it was taking forever to eat cos it's so strong and not so great on anything except toast) that I bought 2 years ago.
I now have 6 5 litre demijons going, and want to continue, yet I want to know the outcomes first... now I think it's time for me to work on my impatience!

 

[Airgead]

Re Acid - Just read about that in Ken's book, was just jumping on to say 'never mind' ;-)
I do however have a purist streak, and dislike adding stuff I can't grow or make. Like nutrient. So I prefer an ancient Orange, or adding raisins etc as yeast fodder.
So, with that in mind, would you ever add lemon juice, lime juice, grapefruit juice, to increase the acid?
Regarding the test kit for acid... is there a 'magic number' for balancing the acid, or do you pick an acidity that you like the taste of, like when deciding upon an FG?
(As an engineer, I REALLY like numbers... even if it's approximate... and I really dislike fuzzy logic)
Ken gives OG's and FG's for almost all his recipes, which I think is GREAT, as it gives you something to aim for.
He also specifies approx 6kg of fruit per 20 litre batch... so again I find I've asked questions I should already have known the answer to.

I've just put on a sweet show mead batch with D47 and the left over leatherwood honey (it was taking forever to eat cos it's so strong and not so great on anything except toast) that I bought 2 years ago.
I now have 6 5 litre demijons going, and want to continue, yet I want to know the outcomes first... now I think it's time for me to work on my impatience!

You can add lemon juice. After all its pretty much citric acid and water. The amount is a little hit and miss though so its more accurate to use the acids. It will add some lemon flavour but not a whole lot. Limes and grapefruit may be a little too strong flavour wise but there's no reason you can't give them a go.

The test kit gives you figures to shoot for (mine did anyway) depending on whether its a red or white and whether its dry, medium or sweet. I usually aim for a touch under what is recommended for a white wine. Maybe 2-3ppt under the recommendation seems to do the trick.

Cheers
Dave

 

[KudaPucat]

I've been frantically reading Ken Schramm's book, and finding answers to much I have asked, and planned to ask.
However.
He gives his adding yeast routine as (roughly):
1. rehydrate the yeast.
2. pitch it.
3. after a short period mix/swirl the bottle.

Tonight I looked at my latest batch of leatherwood. The yeast had clearly not mixed, (as I had decided - prior to reading in Kens book - to try it differently)
The reaction was going well, a huge krausen had formed, and the top inch and a half of must was a lighter colour.
As I hadn't swirled it, I decided I should.
Now it's a consistant colour.
Most of the Kraussen disappeared.
BUT
I'm getting 1 bubble every 3 minutes.

The other musts I had made with this yeast pitched, are going great guns, the fastest fermentation I've seen so far. They did however have a larger amount of must (up to the shoulder) and also were of lower SG.

is this an HSM? or is this normal and should I leave it.
It's REALLY early days, I know, but is what I did wrong, should I be molly-coddling and babysitting this batch? Or just ignore it cos "she'll be right"? After all it is honey, it's unlikely it'll be 'apples' (ba-dum tish!)