My First Brew...

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Hi Guys,
Well, I put down my first brew last night which was very exciting.
It is a Czech Pils kit with some additions, including Saaz hops, Black Rock malt and some proper Czech Pils yeast (Wyeast 2001 something???).

Anyway, I added the yeast to the wort when it got down to around 25C and have the fermenter sitting in my fridge at 8C.
In reading a bit more it seems that I should have waited for the fermentation to start before refrigerating

Does anyone know if I have ruined the brew by cooling it too fast?
If it is salvagable, is there anything I should do to recover?
Am I worrying too much?

The other thing I did wrong (that I know of so far) is not making sure that the little anti-sediment nozzle thingo on the tap assemby was pointing upwards away from the bottom of the fermenter. Is there a way I can check it and turn it the right way before I tap it for lagering?

Also, I had planned to ferment at 10C-12C, but my fermenting fridge setup didn't work out straight away so I had to use my bar fridge which has a thermostat (highest temp is 8C). Once I get the other fridge sorted, should I up the fermentation temp to reduce the waiting time?
I know it is better to ferment longer at a lower temp, but I think I will have to wait over a month at 8C, which doesn't suit my newbie requirement for fast(ish) results.

I know this might have been a bit ambitious for my first attempt. I am going to try another ale style beer in the next week or so which should be a bit more noob friendly. It'll give me something else to think about (and drink) while I wait for the pils to ferment anyway...
Cheers!
Joel

 

[cdbrown]

So you used a nice smack pack? Did you smack it about a day before you planned on using it or followed the pack instructions and only let it swell for 2-3 hours. Was it nicely puffed up and quite firm?

Was the yeast also sitting around 25C? Always best not to shock the yeast by dumping it into something which is at a different temp (talking over 5C really).

I wouldn't worry about the fact that you put it into the fridge straight away - it will take a fair while for the fridge to chill such a large volume from 25C down to 8C. My concerns would be ensuring the yeast was actually fully ready to go into the wort.

I did a lager on the weekend just using some dry yeast, pitched when they were about 22C and straight into the fridge to cool down to 12C. Took about 32hours to show signs of fermenting (krausen, I put glad wrap over the mouth instead of the lid so can see what's happening).

Just wait a bit, it'll be fine.

 

[raven19]

Congrats on your first brew!

Check for signs of fermentation over the next 48 hours, worst case take it out of the fridge, let warm up slightly so it can get going (if it hasn't already), then back in fridge! If temperature control is too hard, leave in fridge, turn off the power and just rotate frozen water bottles to keep your temp about right.

Also - the heat from fermentation may be enough to keep it at a higher temp than 8 deg.

2c.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks CD.

Smacked it about 4 hours before it went into the wort. It was sitting in a nice cool spot at around 22C for most of that time.
Now that you mention it, it didn't seem as puffy at time of opening as it had previously. Does that mean anything?

When I looked this morning it seemed that the yeast was all sitting on the bottom, but I guess that is normal for a lager yeast.

Do you have any idea how long I might have to wait for it to ferment at 8C?
Should I up it to 10 or 12C in the other fridge when I can or is it better just to wait it out?

Cheers,
Joel

Edit:
Thanks Raven.
Temp control is no problem. I just can't set it above 8C.

 

[cdbrown]

I normally do lagers about 12C +/-1C. If you can increase the temp a little that would be good. Are you even sure that the wort is sitting at 8C? Like raven said the ferment process creates heat, just because the fridge max temp is 8 doesn't mean the wort is 8. You could try turning the fridge off for a few hours to bring up the temp, just cycle it on and off (if you have a timer that would be good).

24 hours after I pitched my lager I noticed a fair amount of sediment, so I just picked up the fermenter and swirled it around abit to get it suspended.

 

[[email protected]]

The stick-on thermometer was reading 10 this morning, but I thought that might be because it was the lowest reading it had.

I'm going to see if I can get a fully operational thermostat from Jaycar today. The one I bought before was a kit which needed to be assembled (including soldering of chips and resistors onto a circuit board). I didn't realise this at the time, hence my fermenting frdige having no temp control...

 

[Fourstar]

Thanks CD.

Smacked it about 4 hours before it went into the wort. It was sitting in a nice cool spot at around 22C for most of that time.
Now that you mention it, it didn't seem as puffy at time of opening as it had previously. Does that mean anything?

It may mean you have a smack pack with less viable yeast, or it still needed some more time to swell and get the yeast going.

I woudlnt worry allot, you may have a big lag time due to yeast cell growth in the wort and the low temps you have in the fridge. i'd say give it 36-48 hours from pitch time before you begin worrying. Give your OG a check on saturday to give you an idea if she is fermenting or not. you may see 2-3 points lower if you are lucky :icon_cheers:

 

[seemax]

How old was your smack pack?

I would be very surprised if you had sufficient yeast cells to ferment a 23L wort.

Ideally you would create a starter (search forums for more info) to build up the yeast count.

Don't bottle unless you 100% sure it has finished, otherwise bomb time.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi seemax,
Not sure how old it was exactly. I bought it yesterday afternoon from my LHBS, so seems unlikely it would be bad... doesn't it... :unsure:

Thanks for all the replies so far guys.

 

[boingk]

I think its relaxing time. Chill out, you've got yeast sediment so thats a big plus - means they're either multiplying before they ferment, or are already fermenting the batch. I'd take an SG reading after 10 to 14 days and see whats happening. Take another one 2 days afer that one, and another 2 days after that. If the reading is constant then its bottling time.

You may wish to perform a diacytal [sic?] rest, which means letting the temperature of the brew rise somewhat for a period of 24 hours or so before bottling. A search will show up the specifics fairly quickly.

Cheers- boingk

 

[Fourstar]

You may wish to perform a diacytal [sic?] rest, which means letting the temperature of the brew rise somewhat for a period of 24 hours or so before bottling. A search will show up the specifics fairly quickly.

Cheers- boingk

Diacetyl rest. Yes always a good thing todo when you are around 3-4 points from terminal gravity. i will either flick off the fridge or take out to ambient temps for 2 days. once terminal is steady. bottle away.

It will help clear out any bad esters and phenols too as well as the Diacetyl aka butterscotch/popcorn aromas.

 

[[email protected]]

Hey guys,
Well, 4 days and counting with no action from my little yeastie helpers so far. Hydro tests are negative and the top of the brew is completely clear of anything resembling fermentation.
I turned off the fridge last night to let things warm up a bit so will see what happens over the next 24 hours I guess.
Fingers crossed.

Going to kick off a fresh wort kit for a draught tonight. Hopefully that will get going a bit quicker since I'll be using ale yeast.
I'm getting thirsty!

 

[seemax]

What was the OG and FG out of interest?

You could bottle now, but to get a really clear lager you need to rack to secondary and cold condition for a while.

 

[[email protected]]

Hi Seemax,
Sorry, you must have misunderstood me. The initial reading was 1.040 and this hasn't changed since I pitched the yeast 4 days ago.
Sadly, it seems there has been no fermentation at all in that time.
At this point I'd be happy with a slightly cloudy lager with some alcohol in it

 

[cdbrown]

Sorry news indeed - if the gravity hasn't changed at all then I reckon the yeast didn't survive. You'd need to have a look at the top of the brew to see and smell if there's any nasties growing before considering pitching some more yeast.

 

[[email protected]]

I was afraid that might be the case.
"Billions die as noob brewer screws up lager"
How sad...

The fermenter looks completely clear at this stage. I'm not sure if I should risk another brand new smack pack on something so suspect though.
Would it be worth trying to get a sample of the yeast sediment on the bottom and seeing if I can culture a starter?

 

[Gavo]

Looks like bad luck, but all may not be lost.
If you want to try and salvage the brew you could re-pitch. Maybe not another smack-pack but a cheaper dry yeast. Just in case of spending the money on a high risk (of infection) brew. If your sanitation is good, then you may not have any trouble.
I had a white wine once with yeast that didn't fire up. It even had some mold growing on the floating oak chips. I re-pitched and removed the moldy chips and all was well. Certainly was lucky.

as far as harvesting the yeast cake is concerned. Well... there is obviously no viable yeast there to harvest anyway.

Gavo.

 

[[email protected]]

It's alive!
Well, something is alive anyway...

After 6 full days and one night (2 of those days days being out of the fridge), I checked on my fermenter this morning expecting nothing and found that patches of white foam (hopefully krausen) had appeared on the surface of the brew!
It smells OK, so I don't think it is an infection.
I whacked the fermenter straight back in the fridge and now have my fingers and toes firmly crossed hoping that the gravity will start to drop.
Due to the less than ideal environment so far I am not expecting this beer to be sensational, but if it is even just a little enjoyable to drink I'll be happy and chalk it up as a win

Here is my assessment of what may have caused such a slow takeoff:
1. I pitched the yeast from the smack pack after only 4 hours. Everyone seems to agree that the instructions are rubbish and that you need to leave it overnight.
2. At the time I was not aware that I was supposed to aerate the wort prior to pitching. Therefore the only extra oxygen would have come from putting the water and malt mix into the fermenter.
3. I chilled down to 8C in the fridge before any signs of fermentation.

I think that the low oxygen level combined with a low yeast cell count and low temperature have all worked to slow the process down in a big way.

What do you guys reckon?

When I do another lager I am going to do a starter to get the cell count way up, and also do my best to get the wort and the starter close to fermenting temperature before pitching as this seems to be the best way to do it from what I have read.

One more thing. I have a teabag of Saaz hops in the fermenter which has been sitting there the whole time.
How long should I leave it there do you think?
I am a little concerned about the hops overpowering the brew as they've been in there nearly a week and fermentation has only just started. Am I being paranoid?

Cheers,
Joel