My First Aussie Biab This Weekend...

[Scruffy]

A 'first' brew requires a special brew, I've brewed a little in Blighty so I'm thinking my first BIAB should go:

3.0 kg. TF Maris Otter Pale
3.0 kg. TF Golden Promise
0.16 kg. Melanoidin Malt (for some redness?)
1.60 kg. English Wheat Malt (for some head?)
127 g. Challenger (Whole, 6.8 %AA) boiled 90 min. (for Spice...)
53 g. Goldings (Whole, 5.00 %AA) boiled 15 min. (sweet)
53 g. Styrian Goldings (Whole, 3 %AA) boiled 15 min. (sweet)
53 g. Saaz (Whole, 5.00 %AA) boiled 15 min. (I know it's lager intended - but it's sweet AND spicy...)
53 g. Styrian Goldings (Whole, 3 %AA) boiled 0.5 min.
53 g. Goldings (Whole, 5.00 %AA) boiled 0.5 min.
53 g. Saaz (Whole, 5.00 %AA) boiled 0.5 min.
17 g. Goldings (Whole, 5.00 %AA) used as dry hop.
17 g. Saaz (Whole, 5.00 %AA) used as dry hop. (so you guys think it's a lager )
17 g. Styrian Goldings (Plugs, 6.00 %AA) used as dry hop (i've got some, I love them...).

Yeast : I would dearly like to detonate this with 1469 but might go 1058 or S-04 - thoughts...

3 hours 'mash'? I'd like 75%.

I guess I boil a gnats over 30l to get 23l (don't forget there's ~450g of hops in there...)

Anyone reckon I'll top 7 (% vol)?

Please let me know what you think...

...P.S. Ross, when can i have my pan? :icon_cheers:

 

[PistolPatch]

Good luck with it Scruffy.

I'm more of a gear and equipment guy than a recipe bloke so all I can tell you is that you will get close to 7% but you should also be starting with closer to 40lts of water depending on your kettle shape/type and assuming a 90 minute boil.

I'd suggest you go 38lts of water and be prepared to top that up.

A 3 hour mash is OT. You should go 90 minutes with regular temperature checks. In BIAB, a temperature check means agitating/stirring the grain.

Adding an hour and a half to your brew day is not a great goal whether you BIAB or go traditional and I for one, certainly haven't read that an extra 90 minute mash improves efficiency by a worthwhile/measurable amount.

Keep it simple and follow the rules in the guide - at least for your first 5 or more brews,
PP

 

[Ross]

Please let me know what you think...

...P.S. Ross, when can i have my pan? :icon_cheers:

Scruffy,

arrived yesterday I'm out till late morning if you wan t to discuss the above recipe.

cheers Ross

 

[T.D.]

That is a serious amount of hops. Well over 4 times what most people would use in 23L...

What is the IBU going to be too...? Looks like it could be well into the hundreds!

Why not keep it simple for the first brew....

 

[chappo1970]

Scruffy,
First glance way too much hops and waaaay too much grain. 7.6kg for a 23lt batch will make for a very big OG and ensuing beer. I'll see if I get the time to run some numbers for ya in beersmith.

Are you coming to the BABBS meeting on thursday night?

Cheers


Chappo

 

[bconnery]

I shouldn't have had time, but I was curious, so here is beersmith's take on it...
This may be slightly out as I don't have my profiles set for BIAB but it won't be far off
So basically you are looking at something around the 1075 (assuming 70% efficiency) and 143 IBU.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Boil Size: 35.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 13.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 143.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6000.00 gm Pale Malt, Halcyon (Thomas Fawcett) (5.9 EGrain 77.32 %
1600.00 gm Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 20.62 %
160.00 gm Melanoidin (Weyermann) (70.0 EBC) Grain 2.06 %
127.00 gm Challenger [6.80 %] (90 min) Hops 93.2 IBU
53.00 gm Saaz [5.00 %] (53 min) Hops 25.9 IBU
53.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 13.3 IBU
53.00 gm Styrian Goldings [3.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.0 IBU
53.00 gm Saaz [5.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
53.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (1 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
53.00 gm Styrian Goldings [3.00 %] (1 min) Hops 0.7 IBU

 

[Scruffy]

That is a serious amount of hops. Well over 4 times what most people would use in 23L...

Oh yes my friend... actually, you could be right - a bit - no notes you see - and trying to remember my UK recipes after 'a couple' yesterday!!!

What is the IBU going to be too...? Looks like it could be well into the hundreds!

140 give or take... he said confidently... h34r: ...chappo, got that beersmith calc!!?

Why not keep it simple for the first brew....

Fair dinkum mate; a bit of humility - better to discretely dribble the astringent stew into the dunny than to trip over the fairy lights into the mash tun...

I'm seeing Ross later, and will be attending BABBs tomorrow (depending how ManUtd fair later...!) - and I've had an invite from BrownDog for Saturday... so I'm expecting to be 'revised'

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

Mate if you do make it to BABBS tomorrow I'll ply you with a shot of a UK bitter made on 50g Challenger and 15g Styrian Goldings and that should give you some hints. I'll also show you a 'golden ale' where the only colouring malt is 150g Carared, and that will give you some ideas about redness... Melanoidin is a great malt but more for 'biscuity' malt flavour.

 

[Scruffy]

Scruffy,
First glance way too much hops and waaaay too much grain. 7.6kg for a 23lt batch will make for a very big OG and ensuing beer. I'll see if I get the time to run some numbers for ya in beersmith.

Are you coming to the BABBS meeting on thursday night?

Cheers


Chappo

I'll do my best for Thursday mate...

I'd though it would start around the 1070's and hopefully finish under the 1020's, so around 7%... (look, it's not for drinking - there's some stubborn bird poo on the car... :blink: )

Many thanks for Saturday BTW, much appreciated!!! :beerbang:

 

[Bizier]

With that much hops, I'd almost make a trip up there to help you with 'constructive criticism' even if I am dangerously unqualified.

ED: :chug:

 

[Scruffy]

Mate if you do make it to BABBS tomorrow I'll ply you with a shot of a UK bitter made on 50g Challenger and 15g Styrian Goldings and that should give you some hints. I'll also show you a 'golden ale' where the only colouring malt is 150g Carared, and that will give you some ideas about redness... Melanoidin is a great malt but more for 'biscuity' malt flavour.

Thanks for that! - I wasn't sure about Melanoidin; biscuit for me reads cardboard.

Maybe I halve the numbers at the hop orgy...

English Builders Tea... revIII

I certainly appreciate your seasoned and sage advice blokes!!

 

[chappo1970]

Scruffy,
Your welcome for Saturday mate it was good to meet you and talk beer and bullshyte.
Get along to the BABBS meeting if at all possible and discuss with BribieG would be my advice mate. He is a very seasoned (and slightly pickled ) BIABer and he should be able to talk you thru the issues not only with your recipe but the BIAB method as well. PM me if you want a lift as we come thru your way.

When are we having that brew day BribieG????

Chappo

 

[Bribie G]

Scruffy, what part of Brisbane are you living? I'm sure there are members / brewdays within spittin' who can put you right on some basics.

 

[Justin]

I ran them last night too. I got OG 1079 (23L batch, 74% efficiency). IBU's, I stopped counting past 120+IBU's.

IMHO that's probably not a beer you want to drink. Sorry.

If this is a first batch I'd go for something that you are going to enjoy and be able to savour the results of. A nice tried and true recipe like a Skunk Fart Ale, or any of the nice English Bitters offered here. Not only will it cost you less (what you have planned will be very expensive and you probably wont drink it) but it will be easier to brew and you can get a handle on the technique.

FWIW I tried a BIAB on the weekend and will NEVER go back, sorry. What a nightmare! A messy, awkward mess. I thought I'd try it as I have very limited equipment and space (apartment) over here but I SO wish I'd just whipped up and easy mash tun and smoothly sailed into AG bliss again. I had nothing but trouble. Shockingly low efficiency, then had to create a makeshift sparge in an attempt to get back some of the sugars that were so rightfully mine that the grain tried to steal from me. I even aimed for a conservative 60%, way under shot that. So had to try sparging through the bag and squeezing the hell out of it to at least get something for my time and money. Sparging through the wall of the bag worked but it's a mess because liquid runs round the side and flings off the bag missing the pot. My floor is still sticky after 2 mopping attempts. Try and I might I couldn't hold the bag open to pour straight onto the grain. It was just a messy awkward mess. Then because of my furious and panicked attempts at wrangling those sugars back from the evil little crushed demons I rose victorious, too victorious actually, and way over shot my estimated efficiency and volume. So i was left with too much sugar and too much liquid for the amount of hops I had on hand and I also can't boil much more than about 30L on my stove top, so I had to dilute to a gravity that would be appropriate for my hopping schedule and then discard the extra liquid so that I was going to at least be close to my anticipated post boil OG.

I'll build myself a simple, traditional mash tun for next time. Obviously others have had success with it, but I wont bother going there again. It was my worst all grain experience (actually ever I think). So much f$5king around for what I should have and could have just run smoothly off the bottom of my mash tun, nice, clean, simple. Twisting, squeezing swinging bags of grain - LOL you guys can keep your BIAB.

Cheers, Justin

 

[T.D.]

So basically you are looking at something around the 1075 (assuming 70% efficiency) and 143 IBU.

Undrinkable... :icon_vomit:

 

[Bribie G]

Justin. Sorry to hear about the BIAB woes. The trick with BIAB is to have the biggest pot you can handle, I've got a 40L urn and that's pushin it but they don't make 50L urns. Then you need a bag design that is going to hang like a 'tear drop' rather than like a giant set of dogs ballocks (which drip down the outside of the pot). Also stovetop just ain't going to cut it for normal size batches (23L or thereabouts) so either Urn or large pot with gas burner is really the only feasible option ... although I have heard of people with certain stoves who can span a pot over two rings and that sometimes works.

In your case maybe a trad. mash tun is the way to go and less potentially messy to provide wort for 30L boils in a limited space.


:icon_offtopic: Chappo:

Currently brewery is slowly getting mothballed as our lease runs out in mid June and the landlord (who had been talking about a 3 year lease) has had a stroke poor old bugger and may have to come back to Bribie to live - they bought a pub out West but circumstances have changed, which they do when you get a massive brain haemmorhage, hey :unsure:

Anyway we'll hear about the lease today but have staked out 3 other suitable renters in our area, two of which are Sully style places with double garages breweries :beerbang: so in reply to your question:

1. Sometime in July at the current place, small BIAB demo and drinkies day in the rather cramped single garage
2. Sometime in July at the new place and spread out a bit with a BIAB, and see if anyone has a more portable system than yours and Sullys that they can bring up for the day and we'll give both systems a good flogging side by side with the same recipe. Say a SMASH-SHA Aussie trad ale or lager.

 

[Scruffy]

Scruffy, what part of Brisbane are you living? I'm sure there are members / brewdays within spittin' who can put you right on some basics.

I'm at Manly.

I believe I'll be at BABBs tomorrow.

Any learnin is good learnin!! So bring it on... how should i hold the can opener? is it best to take the label off before i soak it in hot water. Will a towel and an old laundry bucket do, can i use bread yeast...

So many questions!! :blink:

Scruff.

 

[Justin]

Justin. Sorry to hear about the BIAB woes. The trick with BIAB is to have the biggest pot you can handle, I've got a 40L urn and that's pushin it but they don't make 50L urns. Then you need a bag design that is going to hang like a 'tear drop' rather than like a giant set of dogs ballocks (which drip down the outside of the pot). Also stovetop just ain't going to cut it for normal size batches (23L or thereabouts) so either Urn or large pot with gas burner is really the only feasible option ... although I have heard of people with certain stoves who can span a pot over two rings and that sometimes works.

In your case maybe a trad. mash tun is the way to go and less potentially messy to provide wort for 30L boils in a limited space.

Trying hard not to hijack. But just quickly: 40L pot, spans two burners. I can boil 30L, much more and the burners struggles. Bag was the recommended shape, tear drop with grain-trying to work out a way to sparge was the messiest part. Chin up bar in door way to hang bag off. Mash pH was fine, average grain bill for APA, target OG 1055. Should have been a walk in the park. But honestly, just too much messing around and I just found it clumsy and really awkward. I'm definitely not new to all grain either, been brewing AG for years (brewery here, but I dont have access to it at the moment: http://hbd.org/discus/messages/366/33903.html). I just have no doubts that at least for me the traditional set up will work better with less mess and i have no learning curve. I just hope BIAB doesn't discourage anyone. After my fun on the weekend I wouldn't and wont go back for a second round. Just proved to me how nice it is to have proper equipment and I'll build a cheap bucket mash tun for next time.

Back on topic...Scruffy, have you got a program like Promash, Beersmith etc?? Best money you can spend in All Grain and will certainly help in constructing recipes even if you just follow the BJCP guidelines regarding OG and IBU's displayed when you choose your style. Pretty easy to use and I recommend them. I use Promash, never really looked at Beersmith. Another handy feature is that it saves all your recipes and brew session too. Let us know what you decide to brew and then how it all goes. Most of all have fun and dont sweat it, it'll go fine.

Cheers, justin

 

[Scruffy]

Actually - there's a couple of detractors...

Maybe they're right...

but maybe not...

What's wrong with a double-IPA: a marriage of alcohol and citrus with incredible hops and a smoothness you can sledge on. I'm going to change the recipe to include Crme Brle and clouds.


I'm going to persevere - with a couple of SLIGHT adjustments - and would appreciate the warnings/comments/threats/encouragement...

ScruffPA... RevIV

 

[Justin]

Onward Christian Soldier!!!

Nothing wrong with a double IPA, had some good ones myself: Pliny the Elder, Ruination, Maharaja, I2PA. And they can be incredibly interesting if not abussive on the pallet LOL, but seriously a well constructed one can be a treat. I tend not to drink more than one though, usually pulls me up and sometimes I even feel a little green afterwards :wacko: . Having never brewed one, it just seemed a bit too heavy in the hops department to make a drinkable beer BUT I could be wrong. I'm sure people have done it, and plus apparently the human pallet hits the wall at around 100IBU's. Is there such a thing as hop toxicity in people?

Good luck. J