My Extract Brew Method - please criticise

[A3k]

[SIZE=medium]Hi guys,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I have been an AGer for about 11 years now, but with 2 young kids, I now struggle for time. I’ve been doing some Extract so I can do it on a week night once kids are asleep, with decent results.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I would like to get your take on my method, and if there are any issues, as it’s different to anything I’ve found documented. My recipes have been using Briess or Coopers UNHOPPED Malt extracts, Crystal Malt and Hops.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]NOTE: I’m only aiming for hoppy American beers with this method at the moment.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Process:[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Steep Crystal in 4L at 65C for 15mins[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]Strain grain, bring wort up to boil[/SIZE]
3. [SIZE=medium]Add half a can of Briess Extract to wort (0.75L). this brings it to about 1.060[/SIZE]
4. [SIZE=medium]Do a 20m boil, adding all hops 20min or under. (could increase this boil if I didn’t want as much hop flavour).[/SIZE]
5. [SIZE=medium]Whilst boiling, dissolve the reset of the extract in roughly 10L cold water in the fermenter.[/SIZE]
6. [SIZE=medium]Strain boiled wort into fermenter to remove hops.[/SIZE]
7. [SIZE=medium]Topup fermenter to desired volume (21L)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Everything I read states:[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Extract needs to be boiled to kill bugs and other benefits. Surely the Briess extract has been boiled and all bugs killed (haven’t had any infections doing my way). This was never an issue when I did K&K years ago.[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]it’s best to boil the whole volume to prevent wort darkening. BUT they’re talking about adding ALL extract to the boil with a high SG. So I won’t get this issue, as I’m boiling at 1.060.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Benefits[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Faster[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]No need to chill, as it comes out at about 24C (I then put in fermenting fridge to 18 or whatever)[/SIZE]
3. [SIZE=medium]Only small pot required[/SIZE]
4. [SIZE=medium]Pretty much hop burst every ale.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I’m not too worried as to me this makes a lot of sence. BUT I’m wondering why this isn’t standard practice, and I must be missing something. I need to increase the hops a bit as I’m not getting the required bitterness, but this can be done.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]For completeness, I’ve attached a recipe below. (NOTE: bitterness isn't as high as beersmith suggests)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Recipe Specifications[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]--------------------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Boil Size: 4.06 l[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Boil Volume: 3.65 l[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Bottling Volume: 22.05 l[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Estimated OG: 1.040 SG[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Estimated Color: 33.7 EBC[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Estimated IBU: 50.5 IBUs[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Boil Time: 30 Minutes[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Ingredients:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Amt Name[/SIZE] Type # %/IBU
[SIZE=10pt]0.50 kg Gladfield Light Crystal Malt (Boil) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]0.75 kg Briess Pilsner Malt Extract (Boil)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]8.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min [/SIZE]6.8 IBUs
[SIZE=10pt]8.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min[/SIZE] 6.3 IBUs
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 15min[/SIZE] 13.8 IBUs
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min[/SIZE] 12.9 IBUs
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min [/SIZE] 5.6 IBUs
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min[/SIZE] 5.2 IBUs
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]2.25 kg Briess Pilsner Malt Extract (add to fermenter)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]35.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Dry Hop[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]35.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]BRY97 American Ale yeast[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Thanks guys,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]cheers[/SIZE]

 

[manticle]

If the extract is from a new can or packet, I wouldn't be too stressed.

Looks fine.

Beer ok?

 

[damoninja]

At a small volume if you do want to shave a little more off your pitch temp you could do a quick in the sink before diluting, you'll get this volume down to 30-40 degrees in absolutely no time and that'll easy take a few degrees out of the whole volume.

 

[ianh]

Definitely would not stress from a can. In my extract days used DME and only boiled enough for the IBUs rest went in fermenter, never had any problems. Hope you buy bulk hops with that recipe.

 

[A3k]

If the extract is from a new can or packet, I wouldn't be too stressed.

Looks fine.

Beer ok?

Thanks manticle, that's what I thought too.

Yeah the beer is actually pretty good. better than I was expecting.

The main challenge I have is getting the bitterness correct, as I'm sure it's not as bitter as beersmith states. May also need to add some amount of sugar to dry it out a little, but i'll play with hops first.

There's no homebrewy flavour which really surprised me, as all my K&K beers prior to going AG had. But that was a long time ago now.

At a small volume if you do want to shave a little more off your pitch temp you could do a quick in the sink before diluting, you'll get this volume down to 30-40 degrees in absolutely no time and that'll easy take a few degrees out of the whole volume.

That's true. I was liking the idea of cooling instantly to preserve hop flavour/aroma, but 5-10mins would probably be enough, and also add some bitterness which would be beneficial.

Definitely would not stress from a can. In my extract days used DME and only boiled enough for the IBUs rest went in fermenter, never had any problems. Hope you buy bulk hops with that recipe.

cheers, pretty much sounds the same as what I'm doing. seems so much easier than doing a full boil.

I have a huge amount of hops in my freezer that I need to get through, so I'm not that worried. I bought some in bulk from the states a while back, but didn't end up wanting to brew the same hops every time.




cheers guys

 

[pcmfisher]

No need to boil liquid or dry malt.
You will not get 50 IBU in a 4 litre boil. That's like trying to get 250 IBU in 20 litres.
You will need to do at least a 10 litre boil for 50 IBU.

If you steep your crystal in a separate pot while your hops are boiling you can use that juice, once boiled for a short time, to dissolve the rest of your fermentables in your fermenter while your hop pot is cooling in the sink.

 

[A3k]

No need to boil liquid or dry malt.
You will not get 50 IBU in a 4 litre boil. That's like trying to get 250 IBU in 20 litres.
You will need to do at least a 10 litre boil for 50 IBU.

If you steep your crystal in a separate pot while your hops are boiling you can use that juice, once boiled for a short time, to dissolve the rest of your fermentables in your fermenter while your hop pot is cooling in the sink.

[SIZE=11pt]Thanks pmcfisher, you make a valid point. To be honest, I don’t really need 50IBU very often, BUT even to get 30IBU, the4L boil, would need to be 150. Beersmith does somewhat modify the IBU based on the size of the boil, but doesn’t work properly for this situation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Maybe I’ll aim to do larger boils. If I’m aiming for 21L @ 28IBU, I could do 6L and keep to 100IBU there which is doable. To get to 50IBU I’d need to modify things a little.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Might I’ll try a bittered extract if I want to do an IPA. For some reason I don’t want to do this, but it may make things a lot easier.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Cheers,[/SIZE]

 

[Droopy Brew]

[SIZE=medium]Process:[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Steep Crystal in 4L at 65C for 15mins[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]Strain grain, bring wort up to boil[/SIZE]
3. [SIZE=medium]Add half a can of Briess Extract to wort (0.75L). this brings it to about 1.060[/SIZE]
4. [SIZE=medium]Do a 20m boil, adding all hops 20min or under. (could increase this boil if I didn’t want as much hop flavour).[/SIZE]
5. [SIZE=medium]Whilst boiling, dissolve the reset of the extract in roughly 10L cold water in the fermenter.[/SIZE]
6. [SIZE=medium]Strain boiled wort into fermenter to remove hops.[/SIZE]
7. [SIZE=medium]Topup fermenter to desired volume (21L)[/SIZE]

Looks good

[SIZE=medium]Everything I read states:[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Extract needs to be boiled to kill bugs and other benefits. Surely the Briess extract has been boiled and all bugs killed (haven’t had any infections doing my way). This was never an issue when I did K&K years ago. ********[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]it’s best to boil the whole volume to prevent wort darkening. BUT they’re talking about adding ALL extract to the boil with a high SG. So I won’t get this issue, as I’m boiling at 1.060. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Benefits[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=medium]Faster[/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=medium]No need to chill, as it comes out at about 24C (I then put in fermenting fridge to 18 or whatever)[/SIZE]
3. [SIZE=medium]Only small pot required[/SIZE]
4. [SIZE=medium]Pretty much hop burst every ale.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I’m not too worried as to me this makes a lot of sence. BUT I’m wondering why this isn’t standard practice, and I must be missing something. I need to increase the hops a bit as I’m not getting the required bitterness, but this can be done.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]For completeness, I’ve attached a recipe below. (NOTE: bitterness isn't as high as beersmith suggests)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Recipe Specifications[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]--------------------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Boil Size: 4.06 l[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Post Boil Volume: 3.65 l[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Bottling Volume: 22.05 l[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Estimated OG: 1.040 SG[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Estimated Color: 33.7 EBC[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Estimated IBU: 50.5 IBUs[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Boil Time: 30 Minutes[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]Ingredients:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Amt Name Type # %/IBU [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]0.50 kg Gladfield Light Crystal Malt (Boil) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]0.75 kg Briess Pilsner Malt Extract (Boil)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]8.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min 6.8 IBUs [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]8.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min 6.3 IBUs [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 15min 13.8 IBUs [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min 12.9 IBUs [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 5.6 IBUs [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]20.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 5.2 IBUs [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]2.25 kg Briess Pilsner Malt Extract (add to fermenter)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]35.00 g Columbus [14.00 %] - Dry Hop[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]35.00 g Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]BRY97 American Ale yeast[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Thanks guys,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]cheers[/SIZE]

You proceedure looks solid. Similar to what I did but I used to generally boil for 60 minutes. I did have success with 20 minute boils but.
Kits or extract do not need boiling- whoever said this is talking crap. They are sanitary- as you say, you make kit beers without any boiling.

What PCMF said is correct- you dont get full isomerisation from a smaller boil so your IBUs will be lower. Do yourself a favour, and get on IanH's spreadsheet (Pinned in Kits and bits forum). Much better for extract recipes and takes into account the size of your boil on IBU calculations.

 

[A3k]

Thanks DB,
cheers for the link to the spreadhseet. the IBUs come out at about 30 if I put "Use the Hop Concentration Factor" on. this seems more accurate.

i'll have a better play around with it on my next brew.

cheers,

 

[Matplat]

Yep Ians spreadsheet is where it's at, I would look at reducing your boil gravity for better hop utilisation, the spreadsheet will help with this.

 

[Brendan_W]

Looks a good method and is basically the same as my process at the moment except for a couple of small changes.

I reduce the amount of extract at the start of the boil to try and match the full volume OG. This way you get better hop utilisation so you can reduce the amount hops your using or keep them in to increase the bitterness. I then add all the extract at the end of the boil. I know it doesn't need to be boiled but its more for peace of mind, it also helps lower the temperature. I then do a quick chill with an ice bath to bring the temperature down before mixing with cold water in the fermenter.

 

[Aussie Mick]

Thanks for sharing this A3k.

Very interesting

 

[ianh]

I did not comment on your small boil volume as you were happy with the result. But if you want to vary the recipe I suggest using the spreadsheet and the Hop Concentration Factor for boil volumes less than 10 litres.

 

[clibit]

I would boil with a much lower gravity than 1060, I'm sure you'd get better hop utilisation. And less colouring of the final wort.

 

[A3k]

thanks for all the feedback guys. I'll stick with it, but might up the boil and reduce the OG. i'll use ians spreasheet to try for a more accurate IBU count.

cheers.
Al

 

[PhilipB]

I see in the recipe you are steeping 1.25kilo of grain for only 15 minutes.

Does this extract from the grain effectively?

In my recipes I would normally steep this in 2 lots of two litres for 30 minutes each time.

Would this make a difference to the utilization of the grains?

 

[dr K]

I see in the recipe you are steeping 1.25kilo of grain for only 15 minutes.

Does this extract from the grain effectively?

In my recipes I would normally steep this in 2 lots of two litres for 30 minutes each time.

Would this make a difference to the utilization of the grains?

With Crystal the malster has already done the job, the sugars are converted so 15 minutes, if not maximum is close.
As to the rest, historically brewing in USA was extract (was) and 60 minute boils were to get maximum hop utilization, Australia followed the hopped kit path (and pretty much stayed there for most brewers to the very late 90"s.
As I recall there was/is a method similar called the Texas Two Tins.....thank you google https://byo.com/mead/item/1505-the-texas-two-step-method is not quite what I was thinking but close.
I see no evil.

K

 

[A3k]

I see in the recipe you are steeping 1.25kilo of grain for only 15 minutes.

Does this extract from the grain effectively?

In my recipes I would normally steep this in 2 lots of two litres for 30 minutes each time.

Would this make a difference to the utilization of the grains?

Hi PhilipB,
I only steeped 500g crystal in the recipe I posted. The 750g pilsner malt in the recipe is extract, and was added once the grains have been removed. This 750 needs to be reduced for hop utilisation, but won't affect the crystal.

Cheers
Alan

 

[PhilipB]

Thanks guys

Misread the extract as grain.

 

[A3k]

c

As I recall there was/is a method similar called the Texas Two Tins.....thank you google https://byo.com/mead/item/1505-the-texas-two-step-method is not quite what I was thinking but close.
I see no evil.

K

Cheers Dr K,
Yeah seems like a very similar process, except they boil a second batch rather than me just mixing it cold. the article reaffirms some of the comments above, particularly the 50IBU limit.

When I started this thread, I had a Rye IPA fermenting. It's kegged now and completely out of balance. I think it's 2 fold. It's too sweet, and it's not bitter enough. So i'll definitely be increasing the boil size and length for these beers. For smaller pales etc I'll just increase a bit.

I managed to get enough time to make a 60L IPA all grain though, so will be a while before I have available kegs to try this again.

cheers for all the input guys.