Music In The Cloud

[MarkBastard]

It's just an example, Mark. But, yeah, I guess message boards are in the cloud in a similar fashion (except they generally work off a centralised databse, not so in the real cloud). And, yeah, this music in the cloud thing is just the internet re-branded in a way to make us pay for it but the cloud is much more than that and you'll have to change your thinking because it will take off and if you're not with it you'll get left behind. Computer specs won't be about power but data through-put and if you can't make the mental leap you'll be stuck with whatever you own now and won;t be able to access anything new.

Don;t get me wrong, I hate the idea but it is coming and it will happen.

There is no mental leap needed because it isn't anything new.

 

[Flash_DG]

I kinda get the shits with the IT industry having to invent new jargon terms to try and help people understand the complexity of the whole system but instead it creates more fear, uncertainty and doubt about what it is, how it works and how to use it. Ffs, not a day goes past that I don't hear somebody telling me that they have bought a new "backup drive" to keep a "backup" of their photos only to find out that they have put all their precious pics on the "backup drive" and deleted them from the PC. Talk about all the eggs in one basket.... But I can't explain to them that the term "backup" means to "have a spare copy of", that's just too complex for them to grasp now that they have been trained that a "backup drive" does "all that".

/facepalm.

Or when they come in to the computer shop with a crashed HDD expecting you to be able to restore their files with the Backup they created on the drive that died. They stand there looking at you like :blink:

 

[MarkBastard]

My apologies to you then.

All fair points, except I will disagree with the bit about it not being anything new. Yeah, implementations like the one under discussion are a subtle re-working of existing methods but I think if (when, really) PaaS/IaaS take off it will be a huge change to get used to.

Come on man, you gave Gmail as an example before. I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

Gmail is better described as a Web Application.

The 'Cloud Computing' proponents are really deliberately being vague in an attempt to make simple concepts sound like magic. I mean I have people asking me if they should take up this 'Cloud Computing' offering that a company offered them. I investigate it a bit and it's just a server with terminal services installed so that you can host your applications remotely.

And yeah Web 2.0 shits me as well. Facebook isn't radically different to LiveJournal. It's an evolution not a revolution.

 

[bum]

Gmail is better described as a Web Application.

Uh...dude, that's what the cloud is - moving things that used to be local to somewhere remote. Except the cloud will also be about doing all your processing remotely. There are already machines that don't even have proper OS any more. That's how remote it'll be - no OS on your computer. Yes, the cloud is inextricably tried up in the Internet. Doesn't mean they are the same thing.

The 'Cloud Computing' proponents are really deliberately being vague in an attempt to make simple concepts sound like magic.

I don't think it is to make it feel like magic I think it is to stop people noticing that they will only be renting software/processing hardware and that they won't have "physical" copies of their data.

 

[MarkBastard]

Uh...dude, that's what the cloud is - moving things that used to be local to somewhere remote. Except the cloud will also be about doing all your processing remotely. There are already machines that don't even have proper OS any more. That's how remote it'll be - no OS on your computer. Yes, the cloud is inextricably tried up in the Internet. Doesn't mean they are the same thing.

That's what the cloud is? So the cloud has been around for longer than the term itself has. Making the term a load of shit. Thin clients have also been around for a long time.

I don't think it is to make it feel like magic I think it is to stop people noticing that they will only be renting software/processing hardware and that they won't have "physical" copies of their data.

I understand the concept of it. I even like the idea of Web Applications (hell, I develop them). I just don't like the way it's being sold. Your reaction is the kind of thing I don't like. There's so many people out there that don't understand this very well and make out like it's going to be this big game changer and you better get on board now before you're left behind. You gotta be kidding me. That may work with the simpletons but not a web developer that's generally bleeding edge with regards to technology.

 

[Feldon]

The Cloud concept uses the internet (a network, not a storage medium) to remotely access stored applications and files that you own or buy temporary rights to. It could be a music file, or the latest Word or gameing software.

The idea is that rather than billions of people worldwide buying and using their own version of the music, software etc (and going to the trouble of updating it over time) on their own computers that require ever increasing performance, in the near future music, video and the latest updated versions of softwate will be instantly available from the Cloud. One consequence is that your home PC will only need to be a dumbo. Proceessing power will be resident in the Cloud, so good bye HP, Dell etc. They can't all survive into the future.

The Cloud concept was the child of the major telecommunication network providers and goes way back. It was conceived as a way of ultimately bringing the runaway child called the IT industry back home to the arms of mama telco (remember that the silicon chip that spawned the modern IT industry (eg. Apple, Microsoft, Google, Twitter, etc) was invented by Bell Labs - the R&D arm of Bell Telephone Co - and the telcos have never considered the IT industry as anything more than a wayward child).

The ultimate destiny for the telco industry is to achieve fibre-to-the-home network connectivity and dominance in Cloud - then it is game over. The latter will be achieved by the major telcos bundling Cloud access/services with your ISP deal. There may be third-party shop front retailers offering such bundles, but all roads will ultimately lead to the telcos.

 

[bum]

That may work with the simpletons but not a web developer that's generally bleeding edge with regards to technology.

You just admitted you don't even know what the cloud is, brah.

PaaS and IaaS are a huge change to the current norm and they are going to have an effect - not because they are better but because the bean-counters are very excited about it.

This probably won't change anything for web developers at all - everything you(r software) design will still be for browsers.

 

[Dave70]

I cant wait until we achieve singularity in a few years and all you IT propeller heads become redundant..

 

[bum]

I cant wait until we all achieve singularity in a few years and all you IT propeller become redundant..

Oooooh...astral cloud!

 

[ShredMaster]

So bum, we're heading back to dumb terminals and mainframes again are we? But the mainframe is somehow "in the Cloud" yet it isn't the Internet? You confuse me.

In reality, since watching "Cloud Computing" grow into a common term, they are just trying to simplify how it sounds like it works. The "Cloud" has been there for years and so has software licensing, but almost all licenses can be cracked/cheated (even the good ol Security Dongle can be replicated easily enough).

Cloud Computing is protecting their license fees by offering subscriptions to use their services. They will claim to take away all the maintenance, installation and hardware requirements for the given application/service in return for an ongoing fee (even "free with advertising rights"). You don't have a current subscription or login, you don't get to use the "Cloud". It's more to do with restriction of access, directing traffic and a continual upgrade path without the high dollar outlay every few years.

Physical software, music, games, literature will ALWAYS be around. Remember, we were supposed to all be flying personal helicopters somewhere around year 2000. Paperless-office anyone??

Cloud computing will hang around for a bit, then they'll think of some other wanky way to describe it and in turn reinvent the same old rubber wheel, paint it green, fill it with fluffy white stuff and call it "Eco Friendly Revolving Movement Application".... and then charge you $7/month to access it....

 

[MarkBastard]

You just admitted you don't even know what the cloud is, brah.

PaaS and IaaS are a huge change to the current norm and they are going to have an effect - not because they are better but because the bean-counters are very excited about it.

This probably won't change anything for web developers at all - everything you(r software) design will still be for browsers.

Ah, nah brah.

Why did you not include SaaS in your little list? Because I was right? You're one of those guys that always ignores any points that prove you wrong and quickly moves on to a further argument. AKA a troll.

Answer me this:

Was Hotmail in the cloud 15 years ago?
Is Gmail in the cloud now?
What is the difference?

 

[benno1973]

I don't think it is to make it feel like magic I think it is to stop people noticing that they will only be renting software/processing hardware and that they won't have "physical" copies of their data.

If by physical, you mean data on a local HDD, then I think it'll be a long time before people trust that. Or maybe it'll be a long time before I trust that. I have a local copy of all my photos and music. I also have a backup on a NAS, and the NAS is backed up to a removable drive stored offsite. Someday I might consider offsite storage in the cloud, but it'll won't be my first storage choice as it allows for a single point of failure - the time when I'm unable to connect to the internet for some reason.

I think our current internet infrastructure is too slow and unstable for cloud computing at the moment. Hell, I stream movies from my NAS over a wireless-N network, and that barely keeps up. God forbid I was trying to do the same over the internet.

 

[MarkBastard]

So bum, we're heading back to dumb terminals and mainframes again are we? But the mainframe is somehow "in the Cloud" yet it isn't the Internet? You confuse me.

In reality, since watching "Cloud Computing" grow into a common term, they are just trying to simplify how it sounds like it works. The "Cloud" has been there for years and so has software licensing, but almost all licenses can be cracked/cheated (even the good ol Security Dongle can be replicated easily enough).

Cloud computer is basically just a form of outsourcing from a money and technical point of view. I have no issue with the concept itself. Anyone that thinks computers are going to become thin clients or dumb terminals is buying way too much into the hype, but the concept of not having to worry about the lower level details is a good one. It's just not a new thing, not a revolutionary thing, and the term 'Cloud' only exists to ambush decision makers with marketing bullshit so that they hand over their money.

And there are some core issues with the idea in general when it comes to big corporations, hence people are constantly talking about how it's about to take off rather than it actually taking off.

 

[bum]

So bum, we're heading back to dumb terminals and mainframes again are we?

That is what Google wants so it will most likely happen. Google make the aforementioned machines without a proper OS.

But the mainframe is somehow "in the Cloud"?

No, it will be far more distributed than that.

You confuse me.

I don't expect that is a difficult thing to do.

You don't have a current subscription or login, you don't get to use the "Cloud". It's more to do with restriction of access, directing traffic and a continual upgrade path without the high dollar outlay every few years.

One way to look at it but a little overly cynical, if you ask me. The second clients don't have access is the second a business will go arse-up. It'll be more like forcing people to pick teams rather than trying to exclude people.

Physical software, music, games, literature will ALWAYS be around.

Not if hardware doesn't support it.

Cloud computing will hang around for a bit, then they'll think of some other wanky way to describe it and in turn reinvent the same old rubber wheel, paint it green, fill it with fluffy white stuff and call it "Eco Friendly Revolving Movement Application".... and then charge you $7/month to access it....

Most likely correct but that doesn't mean that it cannot happen nor that there will not be change. Anyone sitting there saying "Nah, IT doesn't change" is sorta just making shit up and deciding to believe it.

 

[technoicon]

Cloud computer is basically just a form of outsourcing from a money and technical point of view. I have no issue with the concept itself. Anyone that thinks computers are going to become thin clients or dumb terminals is buying way too much into the hype, but the concept of not having to worry about the lower level details is a good one. It's just not a new thing, not a revolutionary thing, and the term 'Cloud' only exists to ambush decision makers with marketing bullshit so that they hand over their money.

And there are some core issues with the idea in general when it comes to big corporations, hence people are constantly talking about how it's about to take off rather than it actually taking off.

not that i think that computers will be thin clients or dumb terminals. but just have a look at how they are starting to virtualise apps now, not just our servers. this and many other factors is going to make things move in the direction of everything being on the internet.. and there for in the cloud.

 

[Feldon]

 

[bum]

only exists to ambush decision makers with marketing bullshit so that they hand over their money.

Yes. But I'd imagine that they will expect something for that money.

And there are some core issues with the idea in general when it comes to big corporations, hence people are constantly talking about how it's about to take off rather than it actually taking off.

That is a very fair point and basically what I'm counting on. The job I'm training up for pretty much won't exist if SaaS takes over in my lifetime.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying IaaP will have taken over inside 5 years and then Skynet is coming. But to pretend it won't happen at all is pretty much madness. Maybe (hopefully) it won't be like it is envisioned by industry but there are very strong forces pushing this idea - it won't disappear overnight.

 

[benno1973]

...but just have a look at how they are starting to virtualise apps now...

Citrix virtualised apps a long time ago. I worked with clients in the late 90's that only used virtualised apps over citrix, and it was old technology then. Not to say that it isn't getting better, but Citrix and VMWare have been around the traps a long time.

 

[bum]

Citrix virtualised apps a long time ago. I worked with clients in the late 90's that only used virtualised apps over citrix, and it was old technology then. Not to say that it isn't getting better, but Citrix and VMWare have been around the traps a long time.

So that's it then? Virtualisation has evolved to its end-point? That seems more like an indicator of further change rather than things staying the same to me.

 

[MarkBastard]

not that i think that computers will be thin clients or dumb terminals. but just have a look at how they are starting to virtualise apps now, not just our servers. this and many other factors is going to make things move in the direction of everything being on the internet.. and there for in the cloud.

What do you mean by virtualising applications?